1 Peter 1:14-16 - As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.â€
God is perfectly just. This is the excuse many fundamentalist Christians use to justify the atrocious behavior of their god. This is why God needed animal sacrifices in the Old Testament, and it's why Jesus was killed in the New Testament. It's why God created a Hell, so that people would pay for their sins. Basically, God demands a sin be punished. A sin is like a debt, and it doesn't matter who pays the debt so long as it is paid.
But something has been bothering me lately. If Christians are supposed to be holy, and to live according to God's standards, and to imitate his perfect nature to the best of their ability...why don't Christians use the same system of justice? If someone offends a Christian and the Christian just forgives their offender freely, that's not justice. The Christian should withhold their forgiveness until the sin has been paid for. They should grab their pet Mittens and cut its head off, sprinkling the blood of their cat onto their offender. Only then will their sin be washed clean.
Ah. But that would only be a temporary solution to the problem. Because we're all sinful, that person would inevitably need another sacrifice sometime down the line. So the solution is simple. Either hoard cats or make a permanent sacrifice. One that will cover both past transgressions and those that could be made in the future. By modeling God's system of justice, the perfect sacrifice would have to be an innocent human who takes the place of the transgressor. And because God sacrificed himself through his human incarnation named Jesus, the obvious conclusion is that every Christian should kill him or herself in order to forgive the people who sin against them. Only then will true justice be done on earth.
Now just imagine if this same principle were applied to the justice system of a country. The United States can hardly claim to be "one nation under God" when they apply fines, jail sentences, and rehabilitations to those who break the law. When a murderer goes to trial, let the families of the victims be given the lethal injections. When a serial child rapist is put on trial, put the children who were raped behind bars. This is how true justice works. Let's make America great by making it the first nation in history to live by God's holy standards.
now you're starting to sound as logical as the Bible. Did you take a class about how to write a holy book?
On a related tangent ...
http://www.101zenstories.org/nansen-cuts-the-cat-in-two/
Did the kitten die for the monks' sins? If you can give a drash then Jesus will get down off that cross ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ega5Rcct2s
To be fair; if everytime I upset a christian he proceeds to pick up a cute kitten and slit its throat in order to spray me in blood, I'll probably accommodate my behavior not to piss him off.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 23, 2017, 03:08:23 AM
To be fair; if everytime I upset a christian he proceeds to pick up a cute kitten and slit its throat in order to spray me in blood, I'll probably accommodate my behavior not to piss him off.
If he then resurrects the cat ... aka makes a zombie kitten ... will you give it a hug, or run away ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on January 23, 2017, 07:03:55 AM
If he then resurrects the cat ... aka makes a zombie kitten ... will you give it a hug, or run away ;-)
Does the zombie kitty want to eat my flesh? Or does he want me to eat it's flesh?
If neither, I'll pet the fuck out of that kittycat.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 23, 2017, 07:07:11 AM
Does the zombie kitty want to eat my flesh? Or does he want me to eat it's flesh?
If neither, I'll pet the fuck out of that kittycat.
Generally it is more appropriate to pet the hairball out of a kittycat. The meme of zombies is, they are always looking to eat brains ... so the dogs are safe ;-)
I always find it laughable cringeworthy whenever I see any law proceedings in america claim their country as being one nation under god, when as you say if it really followed the bibles, women would have to the property of men, gays would have to be executed for being gay, and slaves would still be legal.
That said, teaching people that the bible is just fictional stories and none of it is real, isn't that more what we should all go for, if anything the legal system overruling theocratic law is what most modern countries have now, so better to teach people the bibles just a fairy tale then tell them to commit to it 100%
Quote from: Munch on January 23, 2017, 08:13:17 AM
I always find it laughable cringeworthy whenever I see any law proceedings in america claim their country as being one nation under god, when as you say if it really followed the bibles, women would have to the property of men, gays would have to be executed for being gay, and slaves would still be legal.
That said, teaching people that the bible is just fictional stories and none of it is real, isn't that more what we should all go for, if anything the legal system overruling theocratic law is what most modern countries have now, so better to teach people the bibles just a fairy tale then tell them to commit to it 100%
You guys are aware that this is not a serious suggestion, right? I thought that the premise was ridiculous enough to make that clear. I'm simply mocking those who claim to follow the Bible, and that the Bible is 100% perfect. I know that Christian fundamentalists who read this will find my post absurd, which only proves my point.
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 23, 2017, 09:48:14 AM
You guys are aware that this is not a serious suggestion, right? I thought that the premise was ridiculous enough to make that clear. I'm simply mocking those who claim to follow the Bible, and that the Bible is 100% perfect. I know that Christian fundamentalists who read this will find my post absurd, which only proves my point.
It is fun to take a mock suggestion and build on it. :)
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 23, 2017, 09:48:14 AM
You guys are aware that this is not a serious suggestion, right? I thought that the premise was ridiculous enough to make that clear. I'm simply mocking those who claim to follow the Bible, and that the Bible is 100% perfect. I know that Christian fundamentalists who read this will find my post absurd, which only proves my point.
i know, but its still fun to play along.
since the wild cats used to do their mating calls under my window in the middle of the night, I got no problem supplying the cats. I'll be in front of the temple next to the guy selling turtledoves. The more you sin, the more cats I get rid of; and the more money I make too.
Quote from: fencerider on January 24, 2017, 01:27:45 AM
since the wild cats used to do their mating calls under my window in the middle of the night, I got no problem supplying the cats. I'll be in front of the temple next to the guy selling turtledoves. The more you sin, the more cats I get rid of; and the more money I make too.
But... fencerider, ... you are a cat.
Why do you wish death on Christians, we don't wish that on you?
I know some atheists who are sincere in their unbelief, they wish no harm to anyone. Then there's the atheist like you, who wants everyone who believes in Jesus Christ to be dead. It doesn't sound like the Christians are the problem.
If you want the Christians dead, you should join ISIS, become a Muslim.
Quote from: Heisreal on January 26, 2017, 09:47:09 PM
Why do you wish death on Christians, we don't wish that on you?
I know some atheists who are sincere in their unbelief, they wish no harm to anyone. Then there's the atheist like you, who wants everyone who believes in Jesus Christ to be dead. It doesn't sound like the Christians are the problem.
If you want the Christians dead, you should join ISIS, become a Muslim.
You didn't even read the post, did you? You just read the topic and decided that you needed to enlighten us with your thoughts. How topical of a Christian.
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 26, 2017, 10:47:13 PM
You didn't even read the post, did you? You just read the topic and decided that you needed to enlighten us with your thoughts. How topical of a Christian.
I read the OP very carefully! The theme is hatred! Your knowledge of what a Christian is striving to be is very limited, as well as your scriptural knowledge.
Quote from: Heisreal on January 26, 2017, 09:47:09 PM
Why do you wish death on Christians, we don't wish that on you?
I know some atheists who are sincere in their unbelief, they wish no harm to anyone. Then there's the atheist like you, who wants everyone who believes in Jesus Christ to be dead. It doesn't sound like the Christians are the problem.
If you want the Christians dead, you should join ISIS, become a Muslim.
It sounds like this one is......................and your reading comprehension is typical theist--almost nonexistent.
Quote from: Mike Cl on January 26, 2017, 11:50:48 PM
It sounds like this one is......................and your reading comprehension is typical theist--almost nonexistent.
That's what Trump said about the Democrats. I guess we see things differently also.
Quote from: Heisreal on January 26, 2017, 11:18:24 PM
I read the OP very carefully! The theme is hatred! Your knowledge of what a Christian is striving to be is very limited, as well as your scriptural knowledge.
Not carefully enough, apparently. And I'm not going to waste energy explaining it to you. If you're that lacking in reading comprehension, there's nothing to be gained in this conversation.
Quote from: Heisreal on January 26, 2017, 11:18:24 PM
I read the OP very carefully! The theme is hatred! Your knowledge of what a Christian is striving to be is very limited, as well as your scriptural knowledge.
Blackleaf is making a point about metaphysical inconsistency. If Jesus self-sacrifices, then in imitation of Jesus, Christians should self-sacrifice. Pretty simple really. And in the age of martyrs, Christians still understood this. But after Constantine, not so much. Then it became fashionable to theologize that Jesus was the one and only necessary sacrifice, that martyrdom was no longer necessary. As I have pointed out elsewhere, Christianity was turned on its own head in the 4th century.
Quote from: Baruch on January 27, 2017, 07:14:11 AM
Blackleaf is making a point about metaphysical inconsistency. If Jesus self-sacrifices, then in imitation of Jesus, Christians should self-sacrifice. Pretty simple really. And in the age of martyrs, Christians still understood this. But after Constantine, not so much. Then it became fashionable to theologize that Jesus was the one and only necessary sacrifice, that martyrdom was no longer necessary. As I have pointed out elsewhere, Christianity was turned on its own head in the 4th century.
Blackleaf said,
"Because we're all sinful, that person would inevitably need another sacrifice sometime down the line. So the solution is simple. Either hoard cats or make a permanent sacrifice. One that will cover both past transgressions and those that could be made in the future."
God will only accept a perfect, sinless sacrifice. Only the man Jesus Christ fits that sacrifice, for all sin and for all time. There can be no other sacrifice, that Blackleaf eludes to. Although he would lead you to believe we Christians should make that sacrifice.
Heb. 10:26
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins."
Blackleaf is twisting the Word of God to suggest something that is impossible.
I can't agree, to theologizing of the Jewish martyrdom cult. Jews were martyring themselves in the days of the Maccabees. Jesus wasn't perfect, nobody is. Even Jesus denied equality with the Father. And I would definitely contend that the Father is not perfect. To say that the world is perfect, or that the creator of the world is a perfect creator of an imperfect world ... is to deny any intelligibility. Imperfect creator of an imperfect world ... that is true, and I hate it.
Quote from: Baruch on January 27, 2017, 07:30:22 PM
I can't agree, to theologizing of the Jewish martyrdom cult. Jews were martyring themselves in the days of the Maccabees. Jesus wasn't perfect, nobody is. Even Jesus denied equality with the Father. And I would definitely contend that the Father is not perfect. To say that the world is perfect, or that the creator of the world is a perfect creator of an imperfect world ... is to deny any intelligibility. Imperfect creator of an imperfect world ... that is true, and I hate it.
It's your God given right as a human being to believe as you choose. He didn't create robots.
Quote from: Heisreal on January 27, 2017, 07:58:08 PM
It's your God given right as a human being to believe as you choose. He didn't create robots.
According to atheists ... G-d did ... and defective robots at that ;-) I don't think we are robots, but I agree that we are defective ... but in the image of G-d (the defective).
Quote from: Baruch on January 27, 2017, 08:02:46 PM
According to atheists ... G-d did ... and defective robots at that ;-) I don't think we are robots, but I agree that we are defective ... but in the image of G-d (the defective).
It was the choice of man that made him defective. It was never God's plan. But there again, God gave man free will to choose what he will do.
The problem with all of this is that man will reap what he sows. But thanks be to God, he made a way for us, that is, those who choose to believe that He can and will.
Quote from: Heisreal on January 27, 2017, 08:13:53 PM
It was the choice of man that made him defective. It was never God's plan. But there again, God gave man free will to choose what he will do.
The problem with all of this is that man will reap what he sows. But thanks be to God, he made a way for us, that is, those who choose to believe that He can and will.
You don't believe everything was created by an omniscient, omnipotent god, then?
Quote from: Heisreal on January 27, 2017, 05:36:24 PM
Blackleaf said,
"Because we're all sinful, that person would inevitably need another sacrifice sometime down the line. So the solution is simple. Either hoard cats or make a permanent sacrifice. One that will cover both past transgressions and those that could be made in the future."
God will only accept a perfect, sinless sacrifice. Only the man Jesus Christ fits that sacrifice, for all sin and for all time. There can be no other sacrifice, that Blackleaf eludes to. Although he would lead you to believe we Christians should make that sacrifice.
Heb. 10:26
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins."
Blackleaf is twisting the Word of God to suggest something that is impossible.
Read again, because you failed to get the entire point of my post. If God is just, and we are supposed to imitate him, then you should adopt his definition of justice. Every time you forgive someone without demanding that they pay their sin debt, you prove that you do not agree with God's sense of justice. Every time you do not willingly pay for the sins of those who offend you, you show that you know Jesus' sacrifice makes no sense. No more excuses. No more evading.
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 28, 2017, 02:31:30 AM
Read again, because you failed to get the entire point of my post. If God is just, and we are supposed to imitate him, then you should adopt his definition of justice. Every time you forgive someone without demanding that they pay their sin debt, you prove that you do not agree with God's sense of justice. Every time you do not willingly pay for the sins of those who offend you, you show that you know Jesus' sacrifice makes no sense. No more excuses. No more evading.
You fail to understand the word of God. But how can you understand when you reject and belittle?
Romans 12:19
"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."
The Lord Himself takes care of wrong doings to His own. Christians are hated and considered weak because they let the Lord fight their battles. It's not easy to turn the other cheek, but it is the Lord's commandment.
Your analogy of biblical sacrifices is that of a child's understanding.
Try to keep your ego under a rock please. Are you sure you understand G-d's word? I think not ... but do keep on trying.
Don't worry Mr Obvious. The cats I provide won't be family.
To add on to Blackleaf's op "Be Holy because I am Holy". The Bible is full of stories of god killing people;for no good reason; and then making up a reason to justify killing after the fact. So maybe we should just go around killing people we don't like and then figure out an explanation after the fact.
Or if we were to follow the logic of god sending bears to kill kids that made fun of his friend Elijah, maybe when somebody makes fun of our friend's car we should be throwing acid in their face.
Quote from: Heisreal on January 28, 2017, 11:43:25 AM
You fail to understand the word of God. But how can you understand when you reject and belittle?
Romans 12:19
"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."
The Lord Himself takes care of wrong doings to His own. Christians are hated and considered weak because they let the Lord fight their battles. It's not easy to turn the other cheek, but it is the Lord's commandment.
Your analogy of biblical sacrifices is that of a child's understanding.
You are dodging again. Classic sign that you have no logical leg to stand on.
Quote from: Baruch on January 23, 2017, 07:09:31 AM
Generally it is more appropriate to pet the hairball out of a kittycat. The meme of zombies is, they are always looking to eat brains ... so the dogs are safe ;-)
As are the fanatical Christians and other God-botherers...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzkkm_m3mVE
more cats for the altar?
Joke: A horde of zombies invade a monastery. They leave unsatisfied... No brains...
Quote from: Cavebear on January 31, 2017, 12:12:11 PM
Joke: A horde of zombies invade a monastery. They leave unsatisfied... No brains...
But now they don't say "brains" randomly, but as a Gregorian chant ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on January 31, 2017, 12:54:09 PM
But now they don't say "brains" randomly, but as a Gregorian chant ;-)
The idea of zombies doing gregorian chants positively boggles the mind. Would there be a ukelele involved?
They'd probably sound a lot like Young Frankenstein...
(http://uploads.neatorama.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/YFritz.jpg)
Quote from: Cavebear on January 31, 2017, 01:47:12 PM
The idea of zombies doing gregorian chants positively boggles the mind. Would there be a ukelele involved?
Nos volo
cerebro,
cerebrum
volumus,
(semel repetam)
scrutari ubique
scrutari ubique
Quote from: Cavebear on January 31, 2017, 12:12:11 PM
Joke: A horde of zombies invade a monastery. They leave unsatisfied... No brains...
and then they remember they had already been there and ate there brains a long time ago.
Quote from: Baruch on January 31, 2017, 06:38:04 PM
Nos volo
cerebro,
cerebrum
volumus,
(semel repetam)
scrutari ubique
scrutari ubique
"we want
brain
brain
we
(Repeat once more)"
Fasinating.
I was trying to get that Gregorian chant rhythm ...
So do the body of the song twice, then the refrain is one line repeated, at the end. Notice three syllables on each line of the body. The refrain line is six syllables long. Don't know if the Latin properly scans though (long vs short vowels). Used Google Translate ... as the shit it is, it can't properly back translate its own output to English (there is no AI, it is a parlor trick). The English of the body is something like ... "we want brains, all the brains". The refrain is "searching everywhere". If you want to know how Google fakes this (and it is a useful fake) ask in the computer science section.
This is a "salutate" to all my Catholic friends and relatives and ancestors.
Verum est. Vis cerebro.
No Cerebris, non mentis lucra. (paraphrase of no pain no gain).
Quote from: Baruch on February 05, 2017, 11:34:14 AM
No Cerebris, non mentis lucra. (paraphrase of no pain no gain).
And comotose ad finitum parking space (conundrum) flatulence to you too. ;)
Sorry, I had Hannibal carrying his elephant over the Alps... So I joke about Latin.
Quote from: Cavebear on February 05, 2017, 11:41:40 AM
And comotose ad finitum parking space (conundrum) flatulence to you too. ;)
Sorry, I had Hannibal carrying his elephant over the Alps... So I joke about Latin.
That would explain Hannibal's de-feet ... oh my aching feet! Just stay away from the
"vomitorium".
Quote from: Baruch on February 05, 2017, 11:45:55 AM
That would explain Hannibal's de-feet ... oh my aching feet! Just stay away from the "vomitorium".
The vomitorium
In Romium
Stayed Mainly in
The backyardium.
And then back to the tablium
For more of that good foodium.
et vomitorium
In Romium
Maxime in Sparso
Et backyardium.
Et tunc ad tablium
Quia quod ex bono foodium.
I think you have the "vulgar Latin" down right ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on February 05, 2017, 12:16:38 PM
I think you have the "vulgar Latin" down right ;-)
Ain't Google amazing?
Quote from: Cavebear on February 05, 2017, 01:35:44 PM
Ain't Google amazing?
No more than the con game with three half walnut shells and a dried pea ;-) They have merely applied their web crawling classification algorithm to texts rather than web pages.