I ran across this CPI CALCULATOR (https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl) on the Internet.
Enter a dollar amount for any year, and see what it's worth in any other year. I chose to enter $50 in 1967 (my first real job) to find out how much money I would need in 2016 to buy that same amount of goods: $50 = $361. Prices have gone up by a factor of 7.
OK, well La Dee Da. What really matters is does your income keep up with inflation? In 1967, the top pay scale for "my first real job" was around $10,000. Today, as near as I can approximate, the top pay for that same job is $63,000. Pay has gone up by a factor of 6.
Salary increased 6 times.
Inflation increased 7 times.
Keep in mind that my figures are from memory and sources which may not be up to date. Also, that particular job is not representative of all jobs. Some careers may have gained purchasing power, and some my have lost purchasing power. My guess is that most have lost, but I don't know that for sure.
Also, people change careers, often to better paying jobs, so if you can remember what you made when you started working, and you know what you make today, you can see how you personally did against inflation.
What this doesn't tell us, and I think would be even more interesting, is how the average middle class wage has held up to inflation over the years. My intuition tells me, not good.
Quote from: SGOS on January 05, 2017, 09:53:35 AMWhat this doesn't tell us, and I think would be even more interesting, is how the average middle class wage has held up to inflation over the years. My intuition tells me, not good.
Your intuition is correct (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/). Just barely keeping pace with inflation or falling behind.
That's what I don't think a lot of these people opposed to raising the minimum wage understand. $15/hour must seem like a king's ransom to people who remember their first job paying $5/hour. But prices have gone up since then. Drug prices have gone up, college tuition has gone up, and rent is too damn high.
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 05, 2017, 10:11:21 AM
Your intuition is correct (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/). Just barely keeping pace with inflation or falling behind.
That's what I don't think a lot of these people opposed to raising the minimum wage understand. $15/hour must seem like a king's ransom to people who remember their first job paying $5/hour. But prices have gone up since then. Drug prices have gone up, college tuition has gone up, and rent is too damn high.
Fuck--my first job paid a dollar an hour! My first full time job, at age 24 (not counting the Army, which was $80 a month) was $6,700 a year. Times have changed.
W
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 05, 2017, 10:11:21 AM
Your intuition is correct (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/). Just barely keeping pace with inflation or falling behind.
That's what I don't think a lot of these people opposed to raising the minimum wage understand. $15/hour must seem like a king's ransom to people who remember their first job paying $5/hour.
And in minimum wage jobs, we are talking about jobs that were poverty level to begin with. These are people who have to choose which bill to pay and which to put off for another month. Making choices between a flat screen TV or a new set of tires is beyond their normal experience.
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 05, 2017, 10:11:21 AM
Your intuition is correct (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/). Just barely keeping pace with inflation or falling behind.
That's what I don't think a lot of these people opposed to raising the minimum wage understand. $15/hour must seem like a king's ransom to people who remember their first job paying $5/hour. But prices have gone up since then. Drug prices have gone up, college tuition has gone up, and rent is too damn high.
Yes, but upper class people and their middle class lackeys ... particularly the middle class who are under declining standard of living conditions ... want cheaper shit, and don't mind throwing the working poor under the bus. The white collars should be shot by a firing squad of blue collars.
Quote from: SGOS on January 05, 2017, 10:33:05 AM
W
And in minimum wage jobs, we are talking about jobs that were poverty level to begin with. These are people who have to choose which bill to pay and which to put off for another month. Making choices between a flat screen TV or a new set of tires is beyond their normal experience.
There is a club. You and I are not in it. If you aren't in it, then the Establishment says ... FO somewhere and die already. Keep voting for psychopaths and criminals. Keep shopping at Walmart ... cretins!
My first job was 1.50 an hour...but I was a lifeguard and lived at home with the parents.....i didn't care if I ever got paid...
We are now also at a point where you will have to start competing against a robot, and hell, what business wouldn't want to upgrade to a robot. They don't need to be paid and they have no cares about emotions depending on how they are programmed. Ultimately, I see a rise of people seeking out jobs for science, maths, and philosophy eventually because they will require more thought. Although, what would prevent from a developed AI taking those jobs as well, something able to perform the job of human thought at the speed of a computer. The only thing that I see competing this would be entangling the brain with a computer, something that will also most likely happen within the next 50-250 years.
Quote from: Journey_To_Mars on January 05, 2017, 10:59:20 PM
We are now also at a point where you will have to start competing against a robot, and hell, what business wouldn't want to upgrade to a robot. They don't need to be paid and they have no cares about emotions depending on how they are programmed. Ultimately, I see a rise of people seeking out jobs for science, maths, and philosophy eventually because they will require more thought. Although, what would prevent from a developed AI taking those jobs as well, something able to perform the job of human thought at the speed of a computer. The only thing that I see competing this would be entangling the brain with a computer, something that will also most likely happen within the next 50-250 years.
Maybe. I see cyborgs as more likely than androids. I am a cyborg myself, my eye lenses are artificial now. With cyborgs, there is still a man-in-the-loop .... like Daleks. The point of automation at this point is ... 10% of society has no use for 90% of society, and want to get rid of them.
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 05, 2017, 10:11:21 AM
Your intuition is correct (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/). Just barely keeping pace with inflation or falling behind.
That's what I don't think a lot of these people opposed to raising the minimum wage understand. $15/hour must seem like a king's ransom to people who remember their first job paying $5/hour. But prices have gone up since then. Drug prices have gone up, college tuition has gone up, and rent is too damn high.
I received an email from someone named John Hawthorne who had asked me to post an updated article regarding this topic listed Why Insurance Premiums Rise Faster Than Salary (https://lifeinsurancepost.com/why-insurance-premiums-rise-faster-than-salary)
This is what he had to say:
Hello there,
My name is John Hawthorne and I had noticed that on http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=11151.0 (http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=11151.0) you reference this article about how average workers are getting effected by the lack of wage growth found here. I just wanted to contact you and show you my recently published article on the topic of how the cost of insurance premiums are rising faster than people salary. If you like you could use it as a reference on the page I mentioned or if you rather you may republish the article.
Here is a link to my article. Hope you enjoy.
Thank you,
John.
Instead of living costs remaining the same when the minimum wage increases, living costs increase when people earn more than previously. That is the problem.
Quote from: Hydra009 on January 05, 2017, 10:11:21 AM
Your intuition is correct (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/). Just barely keeping pace with inflation or falling behind.
That's what I don't think a lot of these people opposed to raising the minimum wage understand. $15/hour must seem like a king's ransom to people who remember their first job paying $5/hour. But prices have gone up since then. Drug prices have gone up, college tuition has gone up, and rent is too damn high.
My first job paid 85 cents an hour, and that was a special short term thing that represented a financial gold mine compared to similar jobs. My first real job, summer employment for the Forest Service, paid $1.95 an hour at the age of 18, which was representative of similar jobs. I could have worked at the lumber mill and made $2.25, but I enjoyed Forest Service work more.
My first job was as a college English tutor. I cannot remember how much I made, though.
My first paid job was $1 an hour hoeing (yep--I was a ho) garlic--that was done with a chisel because the young shoots were very tender. Stoop labor is fun. I also picked strawberries for 25 cents a halack--6 boxes twice the size of those in the store. Stoop labor is fun. I also got $1.25 an hr in college as a dishwasher. My first real job was the US Army--$85 bucks a month!! And just for me!!!
Quote from: Sorginak on April 10, 2017, 01:53:22 PM
Instead of living costs remaining the same when the minimum wage increases, living costs increase when people earn more than previously. That is the problem.
Wage push inflation isn't the only kind. On that basis, if we reduced all wages to zero, the resulting deflation would make every product and service free ;-) There isn't a simple relationship between wage level and price level. Basically, if you manage to get blood out of a turnip, an vampire will show up to claim it ;-)
A Roman soldier got about $1.60 per day in silver money, and about an equal amount "in kind". And periodically got a "bonus" from the Emperor ... that's where the term comes from ... unless he managed to get booty out of a war. In the very early times, a Roman soldier got paid in salt ... which was tradable anywhere. The Latin for salt is "salarum" or salary. Basically people at the low end got only means of subsistence or less ... same as in a Third World city today for unskilled labor. The better off got twice that. Roman soldiering was skilled labor. Low end GDP per capita today is ... Malawi in Africa = $342 (2014) per capita per year. Of course typical family income is more or less, depending on size of family and how much the Elite is skimming. Assuming a family size of 4, and a skimming of 50% ... the average family survives on about $684 per year.
I really cry for anyone not in abject poverty (not).
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 10, 2017, 03:04:06 PM
My first paid job was $1 an hour hoeing (yep--I was a ho) garlic--that was done with a chisel because the young shoots were very tender. Stoop labor is fun. I also picked strawberries for 25 cents a halack--6 boxes twice the size of those in the store. Stoop labor is fun. I also got $1.25 an hr in college as a dishwasher. My first real job was the US Army--$85 bucks a month!! And just for me!!!
Good for you Mike! I got 10 Schillings a month from the Army, which was about 50 cents in the 70s. That got you about a pack of smokes. And service was compulsory. Listening to the commies across the border to Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and Hungary and watching helplessly as mushroom pickers got shot because they got too close to the iron curtain. Not so fond memories...
I haven't have a raise in my VA benefits since '08. If we'd kept getting the 10% increases the VA check would have nearly doubled by now.
Quote from: reasonist on April 10, 2017, 09:24:24 PM
Good for you Mike! I got 10 Schillings a month from the Army, which was about 50 cents in the 70s. That got you about a pack of smokes. And service was compulsory. Listening to the commies across the border to Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and Hungary and watching helplessly as mushroom pickers got shot because they got too close to the iron curtain. Not so fond memories...
Wow, reasonist! 10 Schillings??!! I got my $85 in the late 60's and thought that was a tad light. :)) I have both good and bad memories from the Army. Serving in Hawaii was mostly good. Gathering intel on an SDS lead parade was not so good.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 10, 2017, 11:11:29 PM
Wow, reasonist! 10 Schillings??!! I got my $85 in the late 60's and thought that was a tad light. :)) I have both good and bad memories from the Army. Serving in Hawaii was mostly good. Gathering intel on an SDS lead parade was not so good.
Hawaii would have been fine with me too! Instead we were sitting in freezing tents listening to the 'enemy'. And they knew we were listening; talking about recipes and soccer. The 'food' was a joke; I wouldn't feed my dog what they gave us. And no veteran affairs, nothing. No pension, not even the acknowledgement of sacrifice. Because in the old country military service is seen as citizen's duty. We all hated it and counted the months, weeks and days to discharge. You on the other hand volunteered? For 85 bucks and some gourmet cuisine? :-))
I remember my first job in the new country in the early 80s, made 25G a year and a townhouse in the suburbs of Toronto was 42G. A no brainer for sure. Today I would make around 70G in my profession and townhouses go for 400G and up. No comparison, we had a better opportunity than the coming generations.
Quote from: reasonist on April 11, 2017, 10:35:07 AM
Hawaii would have been fine with me too! Instead we were sitting in freezing tents listening to the 'enemy'. And they knew we were listening; talking about recipes and soccer. The 'food' was a joke; I wouldn't feed my dog what they gave us. And no veteran affairs, nothing. No pension, not even the acknowledgement of sacrifice. Because in the old country military service is seen as citizen's duty. We all hated it and counted the months, weeks and days to discharge. You on the other hand volunteered? For 85 bucks and some gourmet cuisine? :-))
I remember my first job in the new country in the early 80s, made 25G a year and a townhouse in the suburbs of Toronto was 42G. A no brainer for sure. Today I would make around 70G in my profession and townhouses go for 400G and up. No comparison, we had a better opportunity than the coming generations.
From the world wars up until the end of Vietnam, we did have a draft in the US. Everyone my age grew up knowing full well that we would be required to spend two years in the Army. Some volunteered for the Navy or Air Force to avoid the infantry. But you went. Some avoided the draft for medical reasons, some for special jobs that made them exempt, like working in the defense industry. I eventually got my notice to register for the draft. I actually attempted to volunteer for the army, thinking I might get a better job, which of course was nothing more than an idiotic daydream, but during the recruitment interview, I informed the recruiting officer that I had a knee operation the previous year. He dramatically threw down his pen on his desk, and said he was tired of knee operations, but he would do me a "special favor" and get me in the army anyway. That was when it first occurred to me that my knee operation could be my ticket out of the army and sure duty in Vietnam.
I was requesting duty in the Combat Engineers, because I mistakenly thought it wouldn't involve killing people or getting killed. I can't believe I was that dumb. So when I was later called to report for my physical, I went to Spokane, Washington where I spent a day standing around in my underwear with a bunch of other guys as we got pushed, prodded, and humiliated by a bunch of assholes in uniform. One sergeant came into the group and said anyone having any objections could put on some boxing gloves and he'd teach them a lesson. No one took him as anything other than a blowhard, and we just ignored him.
To keep this short, it turned out that my knee operation did keep me out of the army. I was told I would be recalled a year later to retake the physical, so when my second notice came there was a section in the form that told me to attach a doctor's statement if I had any thing wrong that might disqualify me from the draft. I went to my doctor and asked for a statement, but all he wrote was that I indeed did have a knee operation, but nothing more than that. I don't know, maybe that was the best the doctor could do for me because we would see each other on the ski hill every Saturday and Sunday, and it was kind of obvious I wasn't having any problems with my knee. But I wrote in the place where I could comment, and described everything that was wrong with my knee. I didn't lie, but I listed everything I could think of, and I have to admit it sounded worse than it was.
So I missed Vietnam when it was in full swing, and by that time, I really had lost interest in "defending my country" from the domino effect of a communist takeover. I knew guys that came home in body bags, or maybe even worse, some that came home as mental vegetables. Some guys weathered it and seemed OK. Others were seriously messed up. Something was happening over there that was most definitely not good for people.
Quote from: reasonist on April 11, 2017, 10:35:07 AM
Hawaii would have been fine with me too! Instead we were sitting in freezing tents listening to the 'enemy'. And they knew we were listening; talking about recipes and soccer. The 'food' was a joke; I wouldn't feed my dog what they gave us. And no veteran affairs, nothing. No pension, not even the acknowledgement of sacrifice. Because in the old country military service is seen as citizen's duty. We all hated it and counted the months, weeks and days to discharge. You on the other hand volunteered? For 85 bucks and some gourmet cuisine? :-))
I remember my first job in the new country in the early 80s, made 25G a year and a townhouse in the suburbs of Toronto was 42G. A no brainer for sure. Today I would make around 70G in my profession and townhouses go for 400G and up. No comparison, we had a better opportunity than the coming generations.
I was drafted. Graduated from college--two weeks later Uncle Sam tapped me on the shoulder. I had signed up for another semester (5th yr for my teaching credential) so the draft board gave me a semester--the off to war. So I checked around trying to find something that would keep me out of the shooting war (Nam). Settled on Mil. Intel.--so technically, I did 'volunteer'. Your duty sounds like a real fubar situation; it was the shits for the whole time! I did manage to stay out of Nam--I was very lucky.
Quote from: Mike Cl on April 11, 2017, 12:00:40 PM
I was drafted. Graduated from college--two weeks later Uncle Sam tapped me on the shoulder. I had signed up for another semester (5th yr for my teaching credential) so the draft board gave me a semester--the off to war. So I checked around trying to find something that would keep me out of the shooting war (Nam). Settled on Mil. Intel.--so technically, I did 'volunteer'. Your duty sounds like a real fubar situation; it was the shits for the whole time! I did manage to stay out of Nam--I was very lucky.
SGOS and Mike, you were indeed lucky to avoid Vietnam! 60,000 Americans were killed but the result wasn't worth a single life.
When I was drafted, we had for the first time the option to refuse on moral grounds and do some civil service instead. Two of my buddies did just that and were transferred to a morgue to wash corpses for a year. That message spread fast and after that, the optional civil service died down quickly. Today it's only 8 months of service required in the military (in Austria) and apparently the food and equipment improved somewhat since then. Although I was honorably discharged as a corporal, I was told by the Colonel that I was the most 'unmilitaristic' man he has encountered in his career. I took that as a compliment -))
The way things are going with your Mango Mussolini, it wouldn't be a surprise if the draft comes back and another major war is around the corner. By now we are too old to be drafted but if it's a nuclear war it won't make a difference anyhow.
Yes, Mango Mussolini isn't better than Milk Chocolate Mussolini or Silver Spoon Mussolini ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on April 11, 2017, 01:26:36 PM
Yes, Mango Mussolini isn't better than Milk Chocolate Mussolini or Silver Spoon Mussolini ;-)
LOL, who is Silver Spoon Mussolini?
Quote from: reasonist on April 11, 2017, 01:31:11 PM
LOL, who is Silver Spoon Mussolini?
George W never worked an honest day in his drunken life. Bill Clinton might be a sexual predator, but at least he worked his way thru college. Not so much after entering politics.
Quote from: SGOS on January 05, 2017, 09:53:35 AM
Salary increased 6 times.
Inflation increased 7 times.
This is all by design. The powers that be need the populace dumb, poor, and unfree.
my first job in 1993 min wage was $4.25/hr and 2bed appartment was $650/month. Now CA min wage is $10.50/hr and its $900-$1,100/month for a 1 bed appartment in Los Angeles County. Not much has changed for people at the bottom...
The people at the top is a different matter. Wall st trash are up to $17,000-$25,000/hr
My dad avoided Vietnam by signing up in the Coast Guard.
I stayed ahead of inflation in my career. Went from $8,000 to $100,000 in 30 years. And got out with a full inflation-adjusted annuity the first day I was eligible. LOL! I gain every month even retired.
I pointed out to the equal co-workers that every day they worked beyond the first eligible retirement day that they were basically working for half their salary. They didn't understand that and they were Analysts! Sad...
My first pay was 113.11 Euros for some missions done in February 2014 as a mystery shopper in banks.
What is a mystery shopper ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_shopping (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_shopping)
The paycheck is dated from March , 1st , 2014.
113.11 EUR from this date is equivalent to the next value.
115.02 EUR in April , 13th , 2017 from data contain in FRCPI1998 index (France from 31 January 1901)
115.51 EUR in April , 13th , 2017 from data contain in EUCPI2005 index (European Union from 31 January 1990)
Link with data from FRCPI1998 index : http://fxtop.com/en/inflation-calculator.php?A=113.11&C1=EUR&INDICE=FRCPI1998&DD1=01&MM1=03&YYYY1=2014&DD2=13&MM2=04&YYYY2=2017&btnOK=Compute+actual+value
Link with data from EUCPI2005 index : http://fxtop.com/en/inflation-calculator.php?A=113.11&C1=EUR&INDICE=EUCPI2005&DD1=01&MM1=03&YYYY1=2014&DD2=13&MM2=04&YYYY2=2017&btnOK=Compute+actual+value
You can use www.xe.com or https://www.oanda.com/currency/converter/ to convert values given in your currency.
What's funny is that inflation isn't a natural condition. We've just lived in an unnatural state for so long that we've begun to think of it as if it were natural.
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on April 15, 2017, 01:39:29 PM
What's funny is that inflation isn't a natural condition. We've just lived in an unnatural state for so long that we've begun to think of it as if it were natural.
It is a statistical average ... just like the fact that people on average are taller now (presumably due to better nutrition) ... than people 100 years ago. Trying to determine cause/effect from averages ... is stretching credulity, but then economics is for suckers.
Not really. Prices are determined by four variables; quantity of goods and services, demand for goods and services, quantity of currency, demand for currency. When you get fiat currency, which historically is an aberration and not the norm, those controlling the currency get to radically change "quantity of currency" far more than market conditions would naturally allow.
As such the result is that inflation as we know it has a symptomatic definition of "rising prices" but a causal definition of "increase in money supply." Given that "increase in money supply" is historically not the norm but is the norm the last century, we have gotten to the point where we think of an unusual condition as normal.
QuoteMapping the Hourly Wage Needed to Rent a 2-Bedroom Apartment in Every U.S. State
(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/2015/05/Screen_Shot_2015_05_27_at_10.34.45_AM/1fe005e3c.png)
http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015/05/mapping-the-hourly-wage-needed-to-rent-a-2-bedroom-apartment-in-every-us-state/394142/
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on April 16, 2017, 01:10:40 PM
Not really. Prices are determined by four variables; quantity of goods and services, demand for goods and services, quantity of currency, demand for currency. When you get fiat currency, which historically is an aberration and not the norm, those controlling the currency get to radically change "quantity of currency" far more than market conditions would naturally allow.
As such the result is that inflation as we know it has a symptomatic definition of "rising prices" but a causal definition of "increase in money supply." Given that "increase in money supply" is historically not the norm but is the norm the last century, we have gotten to the point where we think of an unusual condition as normal.
Wrong .. there is no free market, particularly these days. Prices are determined by government intervention, in collusion with international corporations and foreign powers. See Libor scandal. Please keep your nose in 18th century Adam Smith fantasy. Fiat currency (particularly since 1971) and kabuki finance (particularly since 2001) make it easier for white collar criminals (in the name of national security) to destroy their countries.
Quote from: Sorginak on April 16, 2017, 01:38:51 PM
http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015/05/mapping-the-hourly-wage-needed-to-rent-a-2-bedroom-apartment-in-every-us-state/394142/
Not a problem for the very wealthy ... therefore not a problem for anyone in charge of society (see elitism). The first map: get the hell out of the W coast, and the NE coast of the US. The second map: the US is toast for most working people.
Odd that it's called inflation when the value of a single dollar is contracting.
Smells like perception management.
Quote from: Baruch on April 16, 2017, 02:12:51 PMWrong .. there is no free market, particularly these days.
I think that when I wrote that our current system is a historic aberration allowing manipulation beyond what the free market would enact, I'm also saying that we aren't in that free market situation.
Quote from: Ananta Shesha on April 16, 2017, 03:26:19 PM
Odd that it's called inflation when the value of a single dollar is contracting.
Smells like perception management.
Contracting to its true value, as the full faith and credit of the US, which is zero ;-( Perception management is to manage this contraction, not to prevent its inevitability.
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on April 16, 2017, 07:38:39 PM
I think that when I wrote that our current system is a historic aberration allowing manipulation beyond what the free market would enact, I'm also saying that we aren't in that free market situation.
OK ... we haven't been in a constitutional situation for a very long time. Originally the government wouldn't make any paper money (it was all private bank notes), would coin silver and gold on demand (when owners brought it in for that purpose) ... but would coin coppers like the half cent and the cent. That ended with the US Civil War .. we have been under a state of Federal emergency and tyranny since then. From 1861 until 1914 .. the Bank of England and the British Empire unceasingly drew the US into its tender embrace ... and we have been an undeclared member of the British Commonwealth since 1914. We are as free as the Queen allows us to be.
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on April 15, 2017, 01:39:29 PM
What's funny is that inflation isn't a natural condition. We've just lived in an unnatural state for so long that we've begun to think of it as if it were natural.
Inflation is caused by competing merchants valuing their their wares more valuable over time and the suckers who buy the wares not seeing the gradual increases.
Hell, I thought this thread was going to be about Alan Guth's old theory...I guess that's what I get for thinking when I'm not used to it!
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 18, 2017, 05:12:16 PM
Hell, I thought this thread was going to be about Alan Guth's old theory...I guess that's what I get for thinking when I'm not used to it!
Just take it slow…you got this!
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 18, 2017, 05:12:16 PM
Hell, I thought this thread was going to be about Alan Guth's old theory...I guess that's what I get for thinking when I'm not used to it!
Cosmic inflation is pretty well proven ... provided you extrapolate before the 3.5K radiation ;-) But I don't have a PhD ... and can't pull unicorns out of my ass. Cosmology is almost as dismal a science as economics. Both are based on fraud ... grant fraud in one case, financial fraud in the other.
Sorry - didn't mean to derail the thread...
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 18, 2017, 06:50:32 PM
Sorry - didn't mean to derail the thread...
I will report you to the N-scale model train department of transportation terrorism ;-)
if you add enough inflation to an N-scale train you could end up with a full-sized one
I think inflation is the result of the greed of the Haves. Not happy with what they got, they always want to charge a little bit more. Til one day you look at the price of a pizza and decide its time to learn how to make your own pizza
Central Banks are the original white collar crime. The government doesn't like to gather the money from the people at tax time, so being able to print it out of nowhere is crime free ... because the cops won't arrest the government for counterfeiting. Today with computers, not even counterfeiting, it is balance book fraud .. because they just add digits to the spreadsheet. If your government is criminal, and you are a still a voter ... you are an accomplice ... a criminal too.
Quote from: Unbeliever on April 18, 2017, 05:12:16 PM
Hell, I thought this thread was going to be about Alan Guth's old theory...I guess that's what I get for thinking when I'm not used to it!
Cosmological Inflation will probably be proved wrong some day. Why not, everything else is. OK, F=MA probably stands.
Quote from: Cavebear on April 21, 2017, 05:06:25 AM
Cosmological Inflation will probably be proved wrong some day. Why not, everything else is. OK, F=MA probably stands.
GR and QM disprove that ... Newtonian ;-)