Hr 4919 overwhelmingly passed the House 346 to 66 ... authorizing chipping of autistic and Alzheimers patients. Of course this will never be abused by the police (cough).
Title III, Section 301, paragraph 6:
NON-INVASIVE AND NON-PERMANENT.â€"The term “non-invasive and non-permanent†means, with regard to any technology or device, that the procedure to install the technology or device does not create an external or internal marker or implant a device or other trackable items.
Title III, Section 302, subsection (a), paragraph 1:
IN GENERAL.â€"Not later than 120 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Attorney General, in consultation with the Secretary of Health and Human Services and leading research, advocacy, self-advocacy, and service organizations, shall establish standards and best practices relating to the use of non-invasive and non-permanent tracking technology, where a guardian or parent, in consultation with the individual’s health care provider, has determined that a non-invasive and non-permanent tracking device is the least restrictive alternative, to locate individuals as described in subsection (a)(2) of section 240001 of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (42 U.S.C. 14181), as added by this Act.
Title III, Section 302, subsection (d), paragraph 2:
VOLUNTARY PARTICIPATION.â€"Nothing in this Act may be construed to require that a parent or guardian use a tracking device to monitor the location of a child or adult under that parent or guardian’s supervision if the parent or guardian does not believe that the use of such device is necessary or in the interest of the child or adult under supervision.
This law explicitly states that it is not about "marking people", such as a brand or tattoo to identify them, or "implanting" any permanent technology. It's also completely voluntary. And the guardians or parents of these people ALREADY have the right to have GPS tracking devices implanted. Hell, some parents do it with their kids so they can find the kid if they ever get lost or kidnapped. The person's "guardian" has all the rights a parent would over a child. I know of one case where a guardian didn't trust medicine and opted for electroshock therapy instead, which I didn't even think was a thing any more.
Quote(2) VOLUNTARY PARTICIPATION.â€"Nothing in this Act may be construed to require that a parent or guardian use a tracking device to monitor the location of a child or adult under that parent or guardian’s supervision if the parent or guardian does not believe that the use of such device is necessary or in the interest of the child or adult under supervision.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/4919/text
ETA: Ninja'd...
In a related topic.
Bakersfield police shoot unarmed 73 year old with dementia. (http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/13/us/bakersfield-police-shoot-73-year-old-man/index.html)
Yes. Put chips in people who cannot take care of themselves.
One of the elders of the extended family got lost and was never found. He had alzheimers. This was 55 years ago. If we have the technology now and if goes OK there it will come here soon.
Quote from: Baruch on December 14, 2016, 07:07:57 AM
Hr 4919 overwhelmingly passed the House 346 to 66 ... authorizing chipping of autistic and Alzheimers patients. Of course this will never be abused by the police (cough).
Could you please explain how will the police abuse this? How will the police abuse chipped autism (I mean people with the scale that can't survive without help of others) or alzheimers patients?
Don't you think abusing would be much easier without these people being protect in some way? What do you think is going to happen to this people when they put a chip in them?
I swear some people are living in Hollywood movies.
The police abuse everything in the US ... same as Turkey. The police state only works in your favor, if you are the police. However, having removable bracelets for tracking Alzheimer patients or others (that is the danger) ... would be humane. But the point of this isn't humane ... it isn't driven by the medical community, or the relatives of the patient ... which would be legit ... it is driven by government law ... and thus is completely illegitimate.
Quote from: Baruch on December 14, 2016, 01:00:16 PM
But the point of this isn't humane ... it isn't driven by the medical community, or the relatives of the patient ... which would be legit ... it is driven by government law ... and thus is completely illegitimate.
Please support this statement with anything contained in the bill in question.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on December 14, 2016, 01:04:59 PM
Please support this statement with anything contained in the bill in question.
Good question. In what way was it currently illegal, to implant chips, voluntarily in patients if ordered by a doctor or requested by a responsible relative? We wear bar code bracelets voluntarily, even to have a visit with a dietician to counsel on diabetes ... but we only wear it when in hospital, the government doesn't make it mandatory (everything in law is mandatory, the law doesn't establish voluntary stuff, that is the default).
Since this is the questionable quality of legislation these days, from both houses, both parties ... and a very bipartisan majority vote ... I would like to call a cessation of any further legislation, until President Trump gets a CIA dossier on every member of Congress, to determine if any of them can legitimately hold office. If we are going to add this to the Constitution, without amendment ... then lets do this with Congress and the SCOTUS. Nobody may hold federal office, unless vetted by the CIA and FBI (they don't always agree).
Quote from: Baruch on December 14, 2016, 01:00:16 PM
The police abuse everything in the US ... same as Turkey.
This is not an argument. How are they going to abuse these people, just because they have chips?
How is the police going to abuse a chip system for people in need?
QuoteThe police state only works in your favor, if you are the police.
This is not an argument.
QuoteHowever, having removable bracelets for tracking Alzheimer patients or others (that is the danger) ... would be humane. But the point of this isn't humane ... it isn't driven by the medical community, or the relatives of the patient ... which would be legit ... it is driven by government law ... and thus is completely illegitimate.
Link? The problem with removable bracelets are that they can be removed. Probably could be damaged too.
If you are concerned with that people cannot have any affect over something that will be in their body, yes that is the idea. This should be for people who does not have the mental fortitude or the mental facility to take care of themselves. Which makes them VERY open to every kind of abuse when they are not under protection, even from their next of kin. I am not talking about people who just needs some little help and care, but people who cannot survive on their own in a house or street with simple daily stuff.
If you have a good argument about this, I am all ears, I can change my opinion any time. If your whole point is based on some Orwellian Hollywood dysutopia of 'chips', don't bother.
Quote from: Baruch on December 14, 2016, 01:10:48 PM
Good question. In what way was it currently illegal, to implant chips, voluntarily in patients if ordered by a doctor or requested by a responsible relative? We wear bar code bracelets voluntarily, even to have a visit with a dietician to counsel on diabetes ... but we only wear it when in hospital, the government doesn't make it mandatory (everything in law is mandatory, the law doesn't establish voluntary stuff, that is the default).
Since this is the questionable quality of legislation these days, from both houses, both parties ... and a very bipartisan majority vote ... I would like to call a cessation of any further legislation, until President Trump gets a CIA dossier on every member of Congress, to determine if any of them can legitimately hold office. If we are going to add this to the Constitution, without amendment ... then lets do this with Congress and the SCOTUS. Nobody may hold federal office, unless vetted by the CIA and FBI (they don't always agree).
Have you read the bill, or are you just repeating something you heard about it on some conspiracy website? I ask because what I read said it was a program to supply grants to local agencies to study different methods of voluntary non-permanent tracking devices for a vary narrowly defined subset of people. People who are at risk by the way. There is nothing in there that even remotely resembles what you are saying.
Quote from: Baruch on December 14, 2016, 01:10:48 PM
Good question. In what way was it currently illegal, to implant chips, voluntarily in patients if ordered by a doctor or requested by a responsible relative? We wear bar code bracelets voluntarily, even to have a visit with a dietician to counsel on diabetes ... but we only wear it when in hospital, the government doesn't make it mandatory (everything in law is mandatory, the law doesn't establish voluntary stuff, that is the default).
Irrelevant. Because this is not about people in hospitals being treated to get well or cured. They can certainly be in a hospital when they need it, not in this context I mean.
QuoteSince this is the questionable quality of legislation these days, from both houses, both parties ... and a very bipartisan majority vote ... I would like to call a cessation of any further legislation, until President Trump gets a CIA dossier on every member of Congress, to determine if any of them can legitimately hold office. If we are going to add this to the Constitution, without amendment ... then lets do this with Congress and the SCOTUS. Nobody may hold federal office, unless vetted by the CIA and FBI (they don't always agree).
Trump cannot determine that if someone can legitimately hold office or not, because he is too busy to determine that he himself can't.
And again the irrelevant bullshit meter goes mad.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on December 14, 2016, 11:00:34 AM
In a related topic.
Bakersfield police shoot unarmed 73 year old with dementia. (http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/13/us/bakersfield-police-shoot-73-year-old-man/index.html)
I hate to be a heartless hard-ass about this, but I will be coldly truthful based on my own experience having a parent deteriorate, disappear mentally, become totally incapacitated and mindless, and eventually die a cruel, slow death due to this most horrible of horrible diseases: the police did the man and his family a big favor. They spared him the fear, confusion and suffering that goes with the disease, and the family the pain, heartache, constant exhaustion and financial burden involved in being caretakers.
Quote from: Atheon on December 14, 2016, 01:38:14 PM
I hate to be a heartless hard-ass about this, but I will be coldly truthful based on my own experience having a parent deteriorate, disappear mentally, become totally incapacitated and mindless, and eventually die a cruel, slow death due to this most horrible of horrible diseases: the police did the man and his family a big favor.
I don't think it is heartless at all. On the contrary.
But needlessly to say, it would be much better, if we could take better care of these people instead of shooting them. Basically, that's what civilisation is.
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on December 14, 2016, 01:04:59 PM
Please support this statement with anything contained in the bill in question.
Asking Brauch to support his statements is like asking a barnacle to fly. Even if it knew how, it couldn't do it.
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 14, 2016, 04:00:58 PM
Asking Brauch to support his statements is like asking a barnacle to fly. Even if it knew how, it couldn't do it.
You trust Big Brother. Let us all love Big Brother ... as long as he has a D on his forehead ... the R on someone's forehead ... that is a sign for the 15 minutes of hate.
The government will do good things for you, the government never does anything wrong, the government never has evil intentions (nor any faction within it). You are such good German citizens, I am so proud of you.
Quote from: Atheon on December 14, 2016, 01:38:14 PM
I hate to be a heartless hard-ass about this, but I will be coldly truthful based on my own experience having a parent deteriorate, disappear mentally, become totally incapacitated and mindless, and eventually die a cruel, slow death due to this most horrible of horrible diseases: the police did the man and his family a big favor. They spared him the fear, confusion and suffering that goes with the disease, and the family the pain, heartache, constant exhaustion and financial burden involved in being caretakers.
Chipping him wouldn't have made any difference ... cops shoot because they can, and face no consequences ... what kind of SJW are you? Keeping everyone over 60 in a home, involuntarily ... for their own safety ... that is real for many ... sorry this guy wasn't at "home". Of course nothing bad ever happens to people in nursing homes either ;-)
What's that up there? Its the sky. And its falling.
Quote from: Johan on December 14, 2016, 07:01:42 PMWhat's that up there? Its the sky. And its falling.
It's also the fifth reported wolf sighting in Florida this week. But Timmy still vouches for the reliability of his auger crystals and gut feelings, unlike those pesky wildlife biologists, who are just a bunch of rotten liars.
Chips in people are the MARK OF THE BEAST as foreseen in Revelations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Atheon on December 15, 2016, 04:01:20 AM
Chips in people are the MARK OF THE BEAST as foreseen in Revelations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Actually not ... the "marks" are phylacteries ... but don't expect any Gentiles to get the joke. Revelations is both anti-Roman, and anti-Persian and anti-Semitic.
Quote from: Baruch on December 14, 2016, 06:24:13 PM
You trust Big Brother. Let us all love Big Brother ... as long as he has a D on his forehead ... the R on someone's forehead ... that is a sign for the 15 minutes of hate.
The government will do good things for you, the government never does anything wrong, the government never has evil intentions (nor any faction within it). You are such good German citizens, I am so proud of you.
They've been trained by the MSM to automatically reject anything said by a "conspiracy theorist", no matter how plausible. The MSM has lumped all the conspiracy theorists together, so when these people see talk of for instance, the debates being rigged against a certain candidate, the response is that you're insane for even considering such a thing, even though we ended up being right and the debates were rigged. Our insane and stupid suspicions ended up being not so insane after all, but the idea that the debates would have been rigged was considered insane and maybe even on par with the idea of a flat earth of lizard men, because the MSM has brainwashed these people into thinking how the establishment wants them to think.
We were told not to worry about the anti-free speech SJWs and that they were just a few nuts who were of no concern, and we were called nutcases for worrying about mass censorship. Well, that mass censorship is now becoming a reality, so it turns out we were right once again.
The conditioning has worked very well. I even see people questioning the idea that driving will soon be banned, which is the most obvious thing ever. When that would cut down on car accidents in a massive way, there is absolutely no sense in the idea that driving will not be banned, but since this is something that "conspiracy theorists" sometimes bring up, it's an idea that is made fun of even though it's the most inevitable and obvious thing ever.
Useful idiots .. is the uncharitable term. The people who think they are smart, are the most vulnerable to obviously stupid thoughts and actions.
For example ... it is now liberal to plot a coup against a President-elect, and to threaten Electors with death threats by phone. I see nothing liberal or conservative about American politics, just the feral ravings of grifters who stand to gain or stand to lose ... based on "events on the ground".
Quote from: Baruch on December 14, 2016, 01:10:48 PM
Good question. In what way was it currently illegal, to implant chips, voluntarily in patients if ordered by a doctor or requested by a responsible relative? We wear bar code bracelets voluntarily, even to have a visit with a dietician to counsel on diabetes ... but we only wear it when in hospital, the government doesn't make it mandatory (everything in law is mandatory, the law doesn't establish voluntary stuff, that is the default).
Since this is the questionable quality of legislation these days, from both houses, both parties ... and a very bipartisan majority vote ... I would like to call a cessation of any further legislation, until President Trump gets a CIA dossier on every member of Congress, to determine if any of them can legitimately hold office. If we are going to add this to the Constitution, without amendment ... then lets do this with Congress and the SCOTUS. Nobody may hold federal office, unless vetted by the CIA and FBI (they don't always agree).
Actually, only exactly ONE person has the right to have a chip implanted now, that person's "guardian". My wife works in this industry, so I know how it works.
And this law EXPLICITLY STATES that it's voluntary in a part I already quoted.
Voluntary for now ... for for some folks Obama is Satan, or Hillary is Satan, or Trump is Satan. Do you trust Satan?
Since everyone in the US is a ward of the State ... the State can order it for you. My mother is in nursing home, if I tried to chip her ... things would get ugly fast. That is why the patients don't have the code to leave the facility.
Quote from: Baruch on December 14, 2016, 06:24:13 PM
You trust Big Brother. Let us all love Big Brother ... as long as he has a D on his forehead ... the R on someone's forehead ... that is a sign for the 15 minutes of hate.
The government will do good things for you, the government never does anything wrong, the government never has evil intentions (nor any faction within it). You are such good German citizens, I am so proud of you.
Is that how you react to skeptics?
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 16, 2016, 02:41:29 PMIs that how you react to skeptics?
Pretty much. Sad, isn't it?
And us sane people have to endure post after post and thread after thread of this garbage.
I put chips in myself all the time, it's rather unhealthy.
I have to admit, I feel that people who cant just say what they need to say simply, but instead try to hide their message in esoteric wording, generally do so for lack of anything actually meaningful to say. As such, I generally ignore his posts because they are kooky and rambling but not hateful... but it's getting a bit ridiculous, and pretentious, at this point.
Quote from: Baruch on December 16, 2016, 12:55:11 PM
Voluntary for now ... for for some folks Obama is Satan, or Hillary is Satan, or Trump is Satan. Do you trust Satan?
Since everyone in the US is a ward of the State ... the State can order it for you. My mother is in nursing home, if I tried to chip her ... things would get ugly fast. That is why the patients don't have the code to leave the facility.
I'm sure you're well aware that your argument is known as a "slippery slope fallacy". There is nothing in this law suggesting it will ever become mandatory. In fact, the law goes out of its way to say that it is very much NOT talking about chipping or marking people in any way to identify them. You're arguing that this law is a bad thing because of what "could happen", even though the law goes out of its way to specifically forbid the very things you are concerned about.
This is like arguing that electricity is inherently evil because it
can be used for evil. In fact, it actually
is used for evil. Nuclear warheads wouldn't work without it, after all. But that doesn't make electricity inherently bad. And yes, all people everywhere
could be forcibly "chipped" to track their every movement. But this law is not about "all people everywhere", it's not about "chipping people" and it is in no way "forcible". You're looking at an ordinary piece of cake, the word "yellowcake" is coming to mind and telling us to stay away from the cake because it might someday be radioactive, killing us all. This law just isn't in the least bit related to your fear.
Quote from: The Skeletal Atheist on December 16, 2016, 03:17:48 PM
I put chips in myself all the time, it's rather unhealthy.
I blame the Black Pepper Mafia.
"And the expert that we spoke with actually tells us that barcodes were introduced in the late 1960s, and back then people thought this is way too invasive and too weird and now barcodes are so commonplace that we don't even think about them anymore. The expert tells us, this will happen sooner rather than later." "You can bet somewhere, someday, someone is going to pull this off and we could see those microchips in everyone."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObPn_mVG5A0
Even the MSM doesn't deny that we will soon all be chipped. The experts see it this way as well, but because truther type people also like to talk about this, what the experts have to say is automatically rejected and not even looked into. Because the Bible has some verses that by coincidence match up with the RFID chip, that automatically means that of course we're not all getting the chip, because the so called skeptics don't want to find themselves on the same side of an issue as the Christians or the crazy truthers. They would rather throw sense right out the window and reject all of the experts, just so they don't have to find themselves agreeing with the Christians and truthers.
Quote from: Baruch on December 16, 2016, 12:55:11 PM
Voluntary for now ... for for some folks Obama is Satan, or Hillary is Satan, or Trump is Satan. Do you trust Satan?
Since everyone in the US is a ward of the State ... the State can order it for you. My mother is in nursing home, if I tried to chip her ... things would get ugly fast. That is why the patients don't have the code to leave the facility.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_PQKTRN9N-7s/TDQl4rfU9wI/AAAAAAAAH9M/-GS8lBDGOZY/s1600/slippery_slope.jpg)
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on December 15, 2016, 07:09:08 PM
They've been trained by the MSM to automatically reject anything said by a "conspiracy theorist", no matter how plausible.
There is no material known to man that would be capable of supporting its own weight if it were to be constructed into a capital F large enough to accurately represent the size of the fuck you this statement deserves. Fuck you. Fuck you. And fuck you.
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 16, 2016, 03:05:32 PM
Pretty much. Sad, isn't it?
And us sane people have to endure post after post and thread after thread of this garbage.
That is what people said, until the authorities put them in cattle cars ... for re-education.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on December 15, 2016, 07:09:08 PM
They've been trained by the MSM to automatically reject anything said by a "conspiracy theorist", no matter how plausible. The MSM has lumped all the conspiracy theorists together, so when these people see talk of for instance, the debates being rigged against a certain candidate, the response is that you're insane for even considering such a thing, even though we ended up being right and the debates were rigged. Our insane and stupid suspicions ended up being not so insane after all, but the idea that the debates would have been rigged was considered insane and maybe even on par with the idea of a flat earth of lizard men, because the MSM has brainwashed these people into thinking how the establishment wants them to think.
We were told not to worry about the anti-free speech SJWs and that they were just a few nuts who were of no concern, and we were called nutcases for worrying about mass censorship. Well, that mass censorship is now becoming a reality, so it turns out we were right once again.
The conditioning has worked very well. I even see people questioning the idea that driving will soon be banned, which is the most obvious thing ever. When that would cut down on car accidents in a massive way, there is absolutely no sense in the idea that driving will not be banned, but since this is something that "conspiracy theorists" sometimes bring up, it's an idea that is made fun of even though it's the most inevitable and obvious thing ever.
Soros is funding the Facebook effort to establish group-sourcing of identifying fake news. Some people are reacting by identifying every advertisement they see on Facebook ... as fake news ... which it is.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 16, 2016, 02:41:29 PM
Is that how you react to skeptics?
I have a much less polite word ... than "skeptic". But the posters here are geniuses compared to HuffPro.
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 16, 2016, 04:28:21 PM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_PQKTRN9N-7s/TDQl4rfU9wI/AAAAAAAAH9M/-GS8lBDGOZY/s1600/slippery_slope.jpg)
That is just what they said about the Income Tax ... it only applied to millionaires at first. Didn't become industrial until WW II tax withholding, which was a temporary war measure. I want all the liberals to get chipped ... so that the conservatives know where they are hiding, when it is time to pick them up.
Quote from: Johan on December 16, 2016, 06:46:05 PM
There is no material known to man that would be capable of supporting its own weight if it were to be constructed into a capital F large enough to accurately represent the size of the fuck you this statement deserves. Fuck you. Fuck you. And fuck you.
Shiranu ... look, someone who said just what they thought!
Quote from: Baruch on December 16, 2016, 07:03:06 PM
That is just what they said about the Income Tax ... it only applied to millionaires at first. Didn't become industrial until WW II tax withholding, which was a temporary war measure. I want all the liberals to get chipped ... so that the conservatives know where they are hiding, when it is time to pick them up.
(http://incrementalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/frogs.jpg)
In so far as there are Fellow Travelers posting here (aka Marxists) ... they of course are not against the wet-dreams of Stalin, Mao or Castro.
Quote from: Johan on December 16, 2016, 06:46:05 PM
There is no material known to man that would be capable of supporting its own weight if it were to be constructed into a capital F large enough to accurately represent the size of the fuck you this statement deserves. Fuck you. Fuck you. And fuck you.
Triggered much? We've almost all been brainwashed by MSM to think a certain way. Even me. I bought into the idea that Trump had next to no chance.
Hm, I have to admit my expectations were pretty high that this thread would be about potato chips.
You guys can start putting potato chips in my any time you like.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on December 17, 2016, 02:31:49 PM
Triggered much? We've almost all been brainwashed by MSM to think a certain way. Even me. I bought into the idea that Trump had next to no chance.
Triggered, nah. Annoyed by the pretentious bullshit, perhaps.
It's just another wacky idea based on this fear that the end times are around the corner, and the impending illuminati government is out to get us. Boring.
Actually no end times in sight ... the quote is ... "stepping on your face forever" ... so no end to tyranny. The Germans sure loved to tolerate authoritarians, but they aren't the only ones. Every human being is a used care salesman ... when they are being good. When they are being bad ...
"THEY, AS A CLASS, BELIEVED THAT THEY ALONE MAINTAINED CIVILIZATION. THE WORLD IS OURS, WE ARE ITS LORDS, AND OURS IT SHALL REMAIN. AS FOR THE HOST OF LABOR, IT HAS BEEN IN THE DIRT SINCE HISTORY BEGAN, AND I READ HISTORY ARIGHT. AND IN THE DIRT IT SHALL REMAIN SO LONG AS I AND MINE AND THOSE THAT COME AFTER US HAVE THE POWER. THERE IS THE WORD. IT IS THE KING OF WORDSâ€"POWER. NOT GOD, NOT MAMMON, BUT POWER." JACK LONDON, THE IRON HEEL
Quote from: Shiranu on December 17, 2016, 09:51:46 PM
It's just another wacky idea based on this fear that the end times are around the corner, and the impending illuminati government is out to get us. Boring.
I assume you've come to that conclusion by doing your research and looking at what the experts have to say? No? Did you just assume that without even looking into this?
Gillespie also mentioned cybernetics scientist Dr. Mark Gasson of the UK’s University of Reading (UR), who made history recently: After implanting a chip in himself in 2009 to control his office’s electronic gadgets, he became the world’s first human infected with a computer virus. “The virus was replicated on the swipecards of staff accessing his building and infected the university's database,†writes Gillespie.
Yet Gasson remains enthusiastic about what he characterizes as an inevitable and imminent new technological normal. He says, “It has the potential to change the very essence of what it is to be human.†He believes that microchips’ acceptance will mirror that of mobile phones and that a situation will develop wherein it “will be such a disadvantage not to have the implant that it will essentially not be optional.â€Let me see what your experts have to say. The experts back the idea that this is about to be the new normal. I'm afraid your side of the argument is the wacky one, and ignores history. The best way to predict the future is by looking at past behaviour. Once we all have the chip in us (and most of us will happily get it and happily pay for it) like the experts say we will, the government has clearly shown what they think about a right to privacy what with the NSA spying, etc.
There are swallowable RFIDS that stay in your gut. You could have them in you now, thanks to Comrade Ronald McDonald. This was shown to be technically possible several years ago. But the Stalinist wing of Atheistforums isn't going to listen, they all plan on joining the Imperial Storm Troopers and killing the Rebels and blowing up Syrian planets ... while delusional about being part of the Rebels. The Rebels are Confederates, not Yankees.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on December 17, 2016, 02:31:49 PM
Triggered much? We've almost all been brainwashed by MSM to think a certain way. Even me. I bought into the idea that Trump had next to no chance.
Shiranu hit most of nail on the head with his comment on this. But I will add this. When you smugly disregard anyone who disagrees with you as 'obviously brainwashed by the MSM' or 'you're just thinking and doing what they want all the sheeple to do' what you're saying in essence is 'poor little ignorant you who isn't smart enough to see the light like I did and read between the lines to find the real story.'
Whether you intend to or not, come across as regarding anyone who dares to disagree with you as being a mindless, powerless ignorant blob of extremely ow intelligence. As a rule I don't consume main stream media. And when I do, I regard all of it as being at least 85% false. But I also apply logic and reason when making my own judgements and I accept conclusive proof when available as evidence.
So when I disagree with some little piece of shit asshat on the internet and that little piece of shit asshat says oh you're just brainwashed by the MSM, well yeah, that person gets to be labeled as a little piece of shit asshat. And while we're on the subject I'll give you an extra piece of advice free of charge. You can can smugly insult the intelligence of anyone you want any way you want on the internet. But if you haven't done so already, you might want to learn to temper your comments a bit when talking to people in real life. If you don't sooner or later you're going to smugly insult the intelligence of the wrong mother fucker and quickly find yourself picking your teeth up off the floor.
No, I don't think y'all (you know who you are) are brainwashed by the MSM. I am not brainwashed by the Alt-Media (it isn't Alt-Right just because they oppose Empress Hillary). The reason why people support POV or policy X .. is because they know what they are doing, and will burn for their sins (metaphorically). People here aren't idiots, this isn't HuffPro commentary.
Quote from: Johan on December 18, 2016, 12:11:21 PM
Shiranu hit most of nail on the head with his comment on this. But I will add this. When you smugly disregard anyone who disagrees with you as 'obviously brainwashed by the MSM' or 'you're just thinking and doing what they want all the sheeple to do' what you're saying in essence is 'poor little ignorant you who isn't smart enough to see the light like I did and read between the lines to find the real story.'
Whether you intend to or not, come across as regarding anyone who dares to disagree with you as being a mindless, powerless ignorant blob of extremely ow intelligence. As a rule I don't consume main stream media. And when I do, I regard all of it as being at least 85% false. But I also apply logic and reason when making my own judgements and I accept conclusive proof when available as evidence.
So when I disagree with some little piece of shit asshat on the internet and that little piece of shit asshat says oh you're just brainwashed by the MSM, well yeah, that person gets to be labeled as a little piece of shit asshat. And while we're on the subject I'll give you an extra piece of advice free of charge. You can can smugly insult the intelligence of anyone you want any way you want on the internet. But if you haven't done so already, you might want to learn to temper your comments a bit when talking to people in real life. If you don't sooner or later you're going to smugly insult the intelligence of the wrong mother fucker and quickly find yourself picking your teeth up off the floor.
My opinions are called dumb here all the time and it doesn't bother me. I like most of the posters here despite our disagreement on certain issues. Like I've said before, there are posters here far brighter than I. I have no problem admitting that. I'm just a twenty something year old kid who dropped out of college. I've changed my opinion on certain issues thanks to people who post here. I was just giving my honest opinion when responding to the thread. I can see that you've got blood coming out of your... wherever, though, so feel free to rant if that's what you need to do. When it comes to RFID, you can't back up your position while I've got expert after expert backing up my position, so I figured that your opinion on this issue was a result of your programming. If I'm wrong about that and you've based your opinion on what some other experts have said, I'd like to see what they have to say myself. Please share.
QuoteI can see that you've got blood coming out of your... wherever, though,...
I was going to give a serious response about how nothing you have posted has proved any nefarious conspiracy like you think it does... but I realise how pointless that is now. Grow up.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on December 18, 2016, 03:02:20 PM
When it comes to RFID, you can't back up your position while I've got expert after expert backing up my position, so I figured that your opinion on this issue was a result of your programming.
See that's what I'm talking about. In your world it seems there are only two options. People either agree with you or they are programmed i.e. stupid. I see no up side in pursuing this or any other conspiracy topic with you so I'll save us both the trouble. Remember what I said about your teeth though. You might end up thanking me later.
Stalinists expect to be Gulag guards, not political prisoners.
Quote from: Baruch on December 16, 2016, 06:59:09 PM
I have a much less polite word ... than "skeptic". But the posters here are geniuses compared to HuffPro.
Except for those that are flat out crazy. How's your meds doing for you?
Quote from: Baruch on December 19, 2016, 06:51:59 AM
Stalinists expect to be Gulag guards, not political prisoners.
There was no guarantee.
Quote from: Baruch on December 16, 2016, 07:03:06 PM
That is just what they said about the Income Tax ... it only applied to millionaires at first. Didn't become industrial until WW II tax withholding, which was a temporary war measure. I want all the liberals to get chipped ... so that the conservatives know where they are hiding, when it is time to pick them up.
Because you can give examples of it happening doesn't make it not a logical fallacy.
I'm sorry, but I don't see any evil intent in this law. Guardians can already order a child or dependent adult be "chipped", not only with an ID tag, but with a GPS tracker. It is already their "voluntary" right to go further than this law allows. All this law is doing is setting up funding for non-invasive, non-permanent tracking methods for people who are incapable of taking care of themselves. All you have to do to avoid this law is to not request the funding.
It is very common for these people to try to leave the facility they are in. Hell, if they're at home it's very common for grandpa with dementia to try to drive to the store. They are not in their right minds. They are a danger to themselves and to others, which is why their movements are restricted. There are alarms and often locks on the doors to keep people from getting out. But it's not a prison, so they aren't guarded like it is a prison.
If you knew anything about this industry the purpose of this law would be clear. This and many laws like it have reshaped the mental health industry a monumental amount over the last few decades. If you had gone to any given mental health facility just 40 or 50 years ago you would have seen such horror you would likely not sleep peacefully for a few nights. No patient had front teeth because they
might bite. They were all in a single room, dirty, covered in feces. They were human refuse and nobody cared about them. Laws pertaining to their treatment are not perfect, but they're at least trying to be a damned site better than they were. They are trying to balance between the person's dignity and freedom. Some of the laws seem stupid. In Iowa, a person with the mentality of a baby must hold a job because that's what grown ups do. That person must have access to a sharp knife if they want to cut their own food. You can't buy that person baby toys because they are an adult, even if that's their mentality, even if that's what they like. They have to make their own beds. (The staff does what they call hand-over-hand for the things they are mentally incapable of doing). There are thousands of laws dealing with their dignity, safety and rights, all intended to give them as good a life as possible. They don't make sense in all cases. Knowing a bit about the industry I see this as nothing more than another law trying to increase safety while avoid going too far to decrease dignity.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 19, 2016, 08:17:45 AM
Except for those that are flat out crazy. How's your meds doing for you?
Mine are fine ... how is that bottle of Everclear doing for you?
Widdershins ... no man is safe, when the Legislature is in session ;-( My mother is currently in nursing home ... and she would escape if she could, but not because she is senile. Do you have a relative in nursing home that you are responsible for?
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 19, 2016, 08:18:07 AM
There was no guarantee.
In contrast, in Stalag 13 ... you might even be a TV star in America ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on December 19, 2016, 07:13:01 PM
Mine are fine ... how is that bottle of Everclear doing for you?
It keeps my moped running.
Quote from: Baruch on December 19, 2016, 07:13:01 PM
Mine are fine ... how is that bottle of Everclear doing for you?
Widdershins ... no man is safe, when the Legislature is in session ;-( My mother is currently in nursing home ... and she would escape if she could, but not because she is senile. Do you have a relative in nursing home that you are responsible for?
Come on. Appeal to emotion. I like to think you and I have a mutual respect. That said, you're better than that. That was a cheap shot utterly unrelated to the subject.
Yes, nursing homes suck. This isn't news. To be blunt, legislation didn't put your mother in a nursing home. Family did that because they were unable or unwilling to provide the 24/7 care that she needs. It's a decision that sucks for everyone involved, a terrible decision that nobody would ever have to make if today's medicine didn't keep us alive far longer than we're supposed to live. My dad was terrified of being put in a nursing home. Fortunately modern medicine couldn't keep his heart going long past the time everything else stopped working. But none of this has anything whatsoever to do with chipping people.
Quote from: Shiranu on December 18, 2016, 06:19:06 PM
I was going to give a serious response about how nothing you have posted has proved any nefarious conspiracy like you think it does... but I realise how pointless that is now. Grow up.
I take that as a compliment coming from someone who has posted, and I quote, "fuck free speech". If growing up means disliking free speech and getting triggered by talk of periods, I'm sorry but I'm not interested in growing up.
Quote from: Johan on December 18, 2016, 10:24:12 PM
See that's what I'm talking about. In your world it seems there are only two options. People either agree with you or they are programmed i.e. stupid. I see no up side in pursuing this or any other conspiracy topic with you so I'll save us both the trouble. Remember what I said about your teeth though. You might end up thanking me later.
It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with me. What are the experts saying? If your side of the argument is right, the majority of experts should be of the opinion that the idea of everyone having a chip in them eventually is crazy and paranoid, correct?
You have nothing to back your side of the argument up, so I respond to you as I would a creationist or someone who thinks we never went to the moon. You are just as wrong as them on the topic of RFID in particular, so you will be treated like you are just as wrong.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on December 20, 2016, 03:43:31 PM
I take that as a compliment coming from someone who has posted, and I quote, "fuck free speech". If growing up means disliking free speech and getting triggered by talk of periods, I'm sorry but I'm not interested in growing up.
No, growing up means you realise your little snowflake idea of, "I have freedom of speech, so that means I should intentionally be an asshole!" doesn't really impress people.
Quote from: Shiranu on December 20, 2016, 05:44:45 PM
No, growing up means you realise your little snowflake idea of, "I have freedom of speech, so that means I should intentionally be an asshole!" doesn't really impress people.
You get back what you give. He was an asshole to me. I was an asshole back. What am I missing here? I'm supposed to kiss someone's ass after they call me a piece of shit and play the internet tough guy by talking about teeth on the floor? I don't think you would have cared if I hadn't used a Trump quote.
Quote from: widdershins on December 20, 2016, 10:30:25 AM
Come on. Appeal to emotion. I like to think you and I have a mutual respect. That said, you're better than that. That was a cheap shot utterly unrelated to the subject.
Yes, nursing homes suck. This isn't news. To be blunt, legislation didn't put your mother in a nursing home. Family did that because they were unable or unwilling to provide the 24/7 care that she needs. It's a decision that sucks for everyone involved, a terrible decision that nobody would ever have to make if today's medicine didn't keep us alive far longer than we're supposed to live. My dad was terrified of being put in a nursing home. Fortunately modern medicine couldn't keep his heart going long past the time everything else stopped working. But none of this has anything whatsoever to do with chipping people.
"Mine are fine ..." was a reply to Godzilla Sama, not you. Yes, I respect you. And yes, there has been pervious discussion here of elderly suicide or euthanasia. The point of chipping ... this is for senile seniors etc and the government needs to get involved. Well, I don't like the government getting involved in anything ... so senile seniors etc may or may not be a camel nose under the tent flap ... Fabian hell-spawn in a very old technique. As long as chipping is voluntary ... I don't have a problem with it.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on December 20, 2016, 06:15:21 PM
You get back what you give. He was an asshole to me. I was an asshole back. What am I missing here? I'm supposed to kiss someone's ass after they call me a piece of shit and play the internet tough guy by talking about teeth on the floor? I don't think you would have cared if I hadn't used a Trump quote.
That was in response to your "Fuck free speech" quote, not what is happening before then. To which I continue my idea; yes, you "have" freedom of speech, but fuck this idea that having it means you should use it for negative purposes.
And the reason I called that quote immature is because it is simply immature. It is, "15 year old who just learned what a period is and now wants to say it at school" immature. There is nothing wrong with periods, nothing icky (okay, alot icky, but not socially icky) about them... it's just very bottom of the barrel and a sign of uncouthness of thought and class.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on December 20, 2016, 03:52:38 PM
It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with me. What are the experts saying? If your side of the argument is right, the majority of experts should be of the opinion that the idea of everyone having a chip in them eventually is crazy and paranoid, correct?
The idea that one day, some sort of transhumanist ethos will be the norm and people will casually accept invasive implants is not out of the realm of possibility. But given public resistance to edicts as simple as wearing seatbelts or not using a cellphone while driving, and widespread fear of some sort of "mark of the beast" government implant program, I'm not betting on a rapid adoption of this technology.
Baruch posted about a law regarding non-invasive, voluntary implantation and is of the opinion that it would be abused and lead to invasive and/or involuntary implantation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope), which is just his opinion. After several counterarguments, including relevant text from the bill in question, I think he's coming to the realization that this isn't what he initially thought it was. Kudos to him for that.
Also, I'm going to just leave this here: http://www.snopes.com/government-to-microchip-citizens/
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 20, 2016, 06:31:19 PM
Also, I'm going to just leave this here: http://www.snopes.com/government-to-microchip-citizens/
Snopes is CIA ;-))
Quote from: Baruch on December 20, 2016, 06:32:49 PMSnopes is CIA ;-))
(https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder816/500x/62188816.jpg)
CIA = control the narrative. How better than to control Google, Wiki, Facebook, Snopes, The Onion etc ...
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on December 20, 2016, 03:52:38 PM
You have nothing to back your side of the argument up
Ah I see. And what exactly was my argument again?
Quote from: Johan on December 20, 2016, 07:18:27 PM
Ah I see. And what exactly was my argument again?
The sky is not falling.
Right. So you're saying you've got proof that the sky is indeed falling? Because I was just outside a short while ago. And I took the time to marvel at the stars as I often do. And sure enough, they seem to be more or less in the same position they've always been. In fact from what I understand, they're actually getting farther away.
The countries in the West are becoming more and more like China. The Patriot Act. The loss of privacy. Independent media is under attack. You may disagree, but the idea of mass censorship is kind of a big deal in my opinion. I'm not 100 % percent sure exactly what the future holds, but I agree with the experts who think that this new technology will inevitably take over, and then we will have even less privacy. We won't know for sure until it actually happens, but this is not some fringe idea. If people think this is very possible but think a decent amount of people will resist getting it like Hydra thinks, I'm fine with that argument, as long as you're not trying to present the idea of RFID being the new normal as something silly and on the fringe, because it's not, and it's extremely common for experts to think this is inevitably the future and the new normal for all of us.
Great. So since proof requires fact lets eliminate opinion and speculation and distill what youlve said down to only what is factual.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on December 21, 2016, 12:21:05 AM
I'm not 100 % percent sure exactly what the future holds
Ok tell me again about all the conclusive factual proof you have that the sky is falling.
Of course I don't have proof for something that hasn't happened yet. If you thought I was claiming my opinion was fact, I apologise for the misunderstanding. The only thing I was claiming as fact is that the idea of RFID being the future for all of us is not a fringe idea among experts.
The idea that the sky is falling is going to be different depending on who you're talking to. Plenty of people actually like the idea of mass censorship on Google, Youtube, Twitter, Facebook, etc. I guess following in the footsteps of China isn't the end of the world. Some people can't wait for a world where we are all chipped and think it's going to be the greatest thing ever.
It's is all about the word 'chip', I am telling you. So many have seen so many sci-fi dysutopias, horror movies and shows, when they hear the word 'CHIP' the button gets on.
The chip! Dat is da chip! They're gonna get us!
If it said let's put 'ewjrıüjerıjfel' (I randomly hit the keyboard) in people, the discussion would be different. It's that simple and that stupid.
QuoteSome people can't wait for a world where we are all chipped and think it's going to be the greatest thing ever.
Maybe because there has been no reason to believe it will be, or is, the herald of the end times or even a negative.
Lovers of involuntary detainment ... and State action ... love what they love. Why does the government need to be involved in everything? Because they have our best interests at heart ;-))
Doctors, patients, family members ... no problem with that.
If you have parents etc in extreme poor health ... my sympathy of course. You know where I am at. And yes, some of you would prefer legal euthanasia ... but I think that shooting someone, isn't the most gentle form of euthanasia. Sounds like Marxists executing capitalist wreckers in Stalin's time.
Quote from: Shiranu on December 21, 2016, 03:28:50 AM
Maybe because there has been no reason to believe it will be, or is, the herald of the end times or even a negative.
Said by the guy who admits ... I would like a dictatorship, as long as I am the dictator ;-)
Quote from: drunkenshoe on December 21, 2016, 02:47:55 AM
It's is all about the word 'chip', I am telling you. So many have seen so many sci-fi dysutopias, horror movies and shows, when they hear the word 'CHIP' the button gets on.
The chip! Dat is da chip! They're gonna get us!
If it said let's put 'ewjrıüjerıjfel' (I randomly hit the keyboard) in people, the discussion would be different. It's that simple and that stupid.
You live in a dystopia ;-( ... and you want all the rest of us to share it.
Quote from: Johan on December 21, 2016, 01:01:14 AM
Great. So since proof requires fact lets eliminate opinion and speculation and distill what youlve said down to only what is factual.Ok tell me again about all the conclusive factual proof you have that the sky is falling.
Dictatorships exist today ... they can exist in your country too.
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on December 21, 2016, 02:44:33 AM
Of course I don't have proof for something that hasn't happened yet. If you thought I was claiming my opinion was fact, I apologise for the misunderstanding. The only thing I was claiming as fact is that the idea of RFID being the future for all of us is not a fringe idea among experts.
The idea that the sky is falling is going to be different depending on who you're talking to. Plenty of people actually like the idea of mass censorship on Google, Youtube, Twitter, Facebook, etc. I guess following in the footsteps of China isn't the end of the world. Some people can't wait for a world where we are all chipped and think it's going to be the greatest thing ever.
Keep fighting the good fight ... here in Marxist central ;-)
Yes, in China, not only chipped, but your chip is tied to your "social media" index that will allow the government to both make you use social media (or no food for you) but allow them to devise an index of anti-party behavior. You are all slaves of Seri now ... dystopia is great, as long as it is high tech. This is the inevitable end of techo-utopians. A high tech dystopia.
Quote from: Johan on December 21, 2016, 01:01:14 AM
Great. So since proof requires fact lets eliminate opinion and speculation and distill what youlve said down to only what is factual.Ok tell me again about all the conclusive factual proof you have that the sky is falling.
Trump, Trump, Trump ...
Quote from: drunkenshoe on December 21, 2016, 02:47:55 AM
If it said let's put 'ewjrıüjerıjfel' (I randomly hit the keyboard) in people, the discussion would be different. It's that simple and that stupid.
I think my brother brought some of that back from Sweden, from his last visit.
It tastes pretty good. Let's put that in people.
'ewjrıüjerıjfel' sounds like an unpronounceable Icelandic volcano ;-)
Quote from: FaithIsFilth on December 21, 2016, 02:44:33 AM
Some people can't wait for a world where we are all chipped and think it's going to be the greatest thing ever.
And I'm guessing you're not one of those people.
I am totally in favor of a Stepford Wife world, but for both genders ... and Republican get to run the cyborg remote.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBFKznmHFTA
Of course, like in the original Westworld, nothing will ever go wrong! They cut out the parts more like Inspector Gadget.
Quote from: Baruch on December 20, 2016, 06:18:03 PM
"Mine are fine ..." was a reply to Godzilla Sama, not you. Yes, I respect you. And yes, there has been pervious discussion here of elderly suicide or euthanasia. The point of chipping ... this is for senile seniors etc and the government needs to get involved. Well, I don't like the government getting involved in anything ... so senile seniors etc may or may not be a camel nose under the tent flap ... Fabian hell-spawn in a very old technique. As long as chipping is voluntary ... I don't have a problem with it.
Chipping was voluntary before this law (the decision made by the guardian). This law only provides funding, and it specifically spells out that it does not provide funding for chipping.
Quote from: widdershins on December 22, 2016, 09:42:14 AM
Chipping was voluntary before this law (the decision made by the guardian). This law only provides funding, and it specifically spells out that it does not provide funding for chipping.
Government trick ... if the government funds it, then they control it.
But we must chip only those we fear. ;)
Quote from: Cavebear on December 26, 2016, 04:08:33 AM
But we must chip only those we fear. ;)
Americans fear everyone, especially their own shadows.
I put tortilla chips in me regularly.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 26, 2016, 09:46:58 AM
I put tortilla chips in me regularly.
If an "oreo" is a Black person who is White on the inside, what is an Anglo who is Mexican on the inside? A "chili relleno"? ;-) (implication ... that is American fake cheese inside).
Quote from: Baruch on December 26, 2016, 11:49:31 AM
If an "oreo" is a Black person who is White on the inside, what is an Anglo who is Mexican on the inside? A "chili relleno"? ;-) (implication ... that is American fake cheese inside).
Blurrito.
Quote from: Baruch on December 22, 2016, 01:09:10 PM
Government trick ... if the government funds it, then they control it.
Actually, it's not "funding" so much as "reimbursement" from the sound of it. But whatever. In a country where more than 70% of the people are Christian and a high percentage of those think of "The Mark of the Beast" as possibly being a tattoo or chip in one's head or hand it is unlikely that anyone is working toward "chipping" any particular demographic. And the facts in this case just do not support what you're saying. I certainly understand a healthy distrust of the government. They have done some pretty shitty things. But sometimes a bill is just a bill.
Address me, not some Christian nut cases ;-) Even if there were no Christianity at all, yes, I would distrust anything a government or church or corporation would do. But then I don't believe in the inherent goodness of human beings. I see no evidence to cause me to believe in such a fantastic thing. One can't trust one's own family members, you can't trust your dog or cat. So let's just forget trust as a concept ... it is synonymous with gullibility. This is the problem with religious faith. If I am a theist, it is not because of faith, but perception as immediate as my right hand. This is part of where religions fail ... they rely on testimony. But every witness bears false witness, because all human beings are false. If all human beings are false, and I am a human being, so I am false ... what am I to make of that? Mahayana Buddhism has a suggestion ... that you use whatever is at hand to accomplish your goal, even falsehood. The question is, are you using falsehood for good deeds or evil deeds? I would use truth if I could ... but I find that it is inseparable from falsehood, that they are complementary, not opposites. The recent election is a beautiful example of this ... did Hillary win or lose? ... did Trump win or lose? You have to get past the primitive logic of Aristotle, Nagarjuna was a much greater logician.
Quote from: Baruch on December 26, 2016, 11:49:31 AM
If an "oreo" is a Black person who is White on the inside
I've heard it's all pink on the inside...
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 27, 2016, 05:13:13 PM
I've heard it's all pink on the inside...
Not if a government vampire has drained all the blood first ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on December 26, 2016, 11:49:31 AM
If an "oreo" is a Black person who is White on the inside, what is an Anglo who is Mexican on the inside? A "chili relleno"? ;-) (implication ... that is American fake cheese inside).
What ever it is... I probably count as one.
*Instant edit: I just realized you said Anglo and not white. I am not it at all then.
Quote from: Baruch on December 27, 2016, 11:57:12 AM
Address me, not some Christian nut cases ;-) Even if there were no Christianity at all, yes, I would distrust anything a government or church or corporation would do. But then I don't believe in the inherent goodness of human beings. I see no evidence to cause me to believe in such a fantastic thing. One can't trust one's own family members, you can't trust your dog or cat. So let's just forget trust as a concept ... it is synonymous with gullibility. This is the problem with religious faith. If I am a theist, it is not because of faith, but perception as immediate as my right hand. This is part of where religions fail ... they rely on testimony. But every witness bears false witness, because all human beings are false. If all human beings are false, and I am a human being, so I am false ... what am I to make of that? Mahayana Buddhism has a suggestion ... that you use whatever is at hand to accomplish your goal, even falsehood. The question is, are you using falsehood for good deeds or evil deeds? I would use truth if I could ... but I find that it is inseparable from falsehood, that they are complementary, not opposites. The recent election is a beautiful example of this ... did Hillary win or lose? ... did Trump win or lose? You have to get past the primitive logic of Aristotle, Nagarjuna was a much greater logician.
I was not addressing Christian nutcases, I was pointing out that there's a better than 70% chance that anyone working or voting on this bill was likely a Christian who feared the Mark of the Beast with a very good chance that they see "chips" in people as said mark. I find it hard to believe that this bill would pass if the people working on or voting for the bill saw what you see in it.
As for the rest of it, I started out agreeing wholeheartedly, but then it kind of fell apart and I was left scratching my head But for the part I agreed with, how many times has even our government, the supposed "good guys", had to apologize for something absolutely horrific? Torture, internment camps, infecting men with venereal diseases to see how it would affect their children in South America, exposing troops to radiation from a nuclear explosion purposely to see what it would do to them, giving LSD to people to see what it would do to them...I'm sure the list is much larger than I know, and that's just the stuff we found out about, the stuff which became "common knowledge". I haven't even bothered to search for any information.
So no, I do not exactly "trust" the government. But there is one thing even you can trust and that is that people are inherently flawed. There is no such thing as a perfect secret. The atrocities our government does, we learn about them because people talk and government is a lot of people. There will always be Snowdens, not to mention hosts of other, lesser leakers. Because there are no perfect people and because the government is made up of a lot of people then there is no perfect secret. We will find out when they do wrong, not that finding out lets us hold anyone accountable or anything.
Reading the minds of Congress-criters from afar? Really!! Revelations is bullshit, everyone knows that, particularly anyone cynical enough to enter politics.
Quote from: Baruch on December 28, 2016, 01:10:21 PM
Reading the minds of Congress-criters from afar? Really!! Revelations is bullshit, everyone knows that, particularly anyone cynical enough to enter politics.
Reading the minds of "everyone" from afar? Really??? :wink:
I did not say "what was", I said "what was unlikely".
Quote from: widdershins on December 29, 2016, 12:33:48 PM
Reading the minds of "everyone" from afar? Really??? :wink:
I did not say "what was", I said "what was unlikely".
So probability then ... you used dice instead of a Ouija board.
Quote from: Baruch on December 29, 2016, 12:56:33 PM
So probability then ... you used dice instead of a Ouija board.
That's actually more accurate than you know. I have a HUGE bag full of D&D dice. The Ouija has its uses, though, especially around young and/or stupid people. Stand by the light switch so you can stealthily turn it off at the right moment when young/stupid people are using the Ouija and great fun can be had.
But dice with more than six or less than six sides ... are demonic!
I have one of those 12 sided dies. Fun, but no practical use so far. Might be good as a pair in some craps game with math whizzes...
Quote from: Cavebear on January 01, 2017, 06:18:58 AM
I have one of those 12 sided dies. Fun, but no practical use so far. Might be good as a pair in some craps game with math whizzes...
I wouldn't want to be in any gambling situation where the other guy is a math whizz.
Quote from: Baruch on January 01, 2017, 12:04:07 PM
I wouldn't want to be in any gambling situation where the other guy is a math whizz.
Then you should never play in the rain, man.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on January 01, 2017, 01:14:52 PM
Then you should never play in the rain, man.
Never play poker with a guy called "Doc", never play craps with a math major, and never race a guy named "Speedy". On the other hand, always play air hockey against the guy holding a beer. Well, actually, no one ever beat me at air hockey yet, so I suppose it doesn't matter if you've been drinking or not. But that is just local games.
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 14, 2016, 04:00:58 PM
Asking Brauch to support his statements is like asking a barnacle to fly. Even if it knew how, it couldn't do it.
Forgive me from dredging that one up, but I cracked up reading it. LOL!
My favorite game in college was Chicago. The pot was divided between the highest and lowest hand at 5 card stud. Once I realized that everyone else naturally went for the highest hands, I cleaned up. I had JARS of pennies.
I need to correct that. It was 7 card stud, 2 cards down so you could construct a hand. It was decades ago.. And I don't play regular poker for a reason. I can't bluff and I can't read a "tell" worth a damn. Hurray for chess where everything is in the open. LOL!
Quote from: Cavebear on March 26, 2018, 03:10:54 AM
My favorite game in college was Chicago. The pot was divided between the highest and lowest hand at 5 card stud. Once I realized that everyone else naturally went for the highest hands, I cleaned up. I had JARS of pennies.
Do you realize how much you sound like Trump? Similar age too. Are your hands small?
Quote from: Baruch on March 26, 2018, 01:10:45 PM
Do you realize how much you sound like Trump? Similar age too. Are your hands small?
You think Trump lived for jars of pennies? We played for pennies because they were cheaper than buying real poker chips which none of us had. Or that small hands mean small penises? Do you also routinely fall for other Old Wives Tales? I know a Nigerian Prince who would LOVE to contact you...
Quote from: Cavebear on April 07, 2018, 03:39:44 AM
You think Trump lived for jars of pennies? We played for pennies because they were cheaper than buying real poker chips which none of us had. Or that small hands mean small penises? Do you also routinely fall for other Old Wives Tales? I know a Nigerian Prince who would LOVE to contact you...
I got contacted by the Nigerian prince in just one spam email. I told him I was the US Treasurer, and needed to transfer some money outside of the usual channels ;-)
Quote from: widdershins on December 16, 2016, 03:47:02 PM
I'm sure you're well aware that your argument is known as a "slippery slope fallacy". There is nothing in this law suggesting it will ever become mandatory. In fact, the law goes out of its way to say that it is very much NOT talking about chipping or marking people in any way to identify them. You're arguing that this law is a bad thing because of what "could happen", even though the law goes out of its way to specifically forbid the very things you are concerned about.
This is like arguing that electricity is inherently evil because it can be used for evil. In fact, it actually is used for evil. Nuclear warheads wouldn't work without it, after all. But that doesn't make electricity inherently bad. And yes, all people everywhere could be forcibly "chipped" to track their every movement. But this law is not about "all people everywhere", it's not about "chipping people" and it is in no way "forcible". You're looking at an ordinary piece of cake, the word "yellowcake" is coming to mind and telling us to stay away from the cake because it might someday be radioactive, killing us all. This law just isn't in the least bit related to your fear.
I like your argument.