What are some of your favorite arguments against Christianity in general? I enjoy using philosophical/logical arguments, but I’m looking to expand my arsenal of topics I can use. One topic I find particularly interesting argues the invalidity of Christianity based on the fact that Christian writings stole so many things from previous religious traditions. This article summarizes the argument well:
Does anyone else have any topics they’d recommend bringing up while debating? I’m fairly good at arguing from a philosophical stance, or a moral one, but like I said, I want to become more diverse in my approach. Thanks!
Some of my favorites include citing Bible passages that contradict themselves with other passages.
Some are ones that cite contradictions in documented history and geography
Some are philosophical (Epicurus)
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You don't have to go in providing counterarguments
Ask them to back up their claims. I have been for years.
Still waiting to this day.
My favorite argument is, "You want me to believe in magic, so show me some magic." They HATE when you refer to "miracles" as "magic", but by the definition of magic miracles are, in fact, magic. It's even more fun when you point out the parlor trick Moses did turning the staff into a snake, and how all modern day miracles which can't be easily explained away (what many people think of as "miraculous" today is plain damned stupid, such as seeing a license plate which held significance for them at the time) all miracles today amount to parlor tricks.
Arguments against theistic (omnimax) Gods (http://infidels.org/library/modern/theodore_drange/incompatible.html) work as well against Christianity as any of the other theistic religions.
Arguments that are specific to Christianity (as have been already mentioned) include things like the lack of historical evidence for any such person as Jesus, biblical criticism, anti-intellectualism, and so on. My favorite is maybe Christian history, and the idea that "by their fruits ye shall know them." Christians have been killing, torturing, raping and stealing for thousands of years, with (according to them) the full approval of their God.
I could go on, but I'm getting worked up... :taz:
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on December 06, 2016, 03:04:52 PM
You don't have to go in providing counterarguments
Ask them to back up their claims. I have been for years.
Still waiting to this day.
It's still good to know the counterarguments, imo. Although, it is true that the bottom line is that they need to back up their claim.
The counter arguments are just fun bonuses
Well, I've actually read the babble. Have you?
Quote from: escapades on December 06, 2016, 02:29:43 PM
What are some of your favorite arguments against Christianity in general? I enjoy using philosophical/logical arguments, but I’m looking to expand my arsenal of topics I can use. One topic I find particularly interesting argues the invalidity of Christianity based on the fact that Christian writings stole so many things from previous religious traditions. This article summarizes the argument well:
Does anyone else have any topics they’d recommend bringing up while debating? I’m fairly good at arguing from a philosophical stance, or a moral one, but like I said, I want to become more diverse in my approach. Thanks!
There aren't a lot of philosophers here. There are some of us who have been Christians or married to Christians .. many of whom are highly knowledgeable about Christianity. My single biggest argument against Christianity, is history (the part we definitely know about, not the Gospel period). But I am a history buff, particularly ancient history. But Christianity isn't all bad either. Every human practice has some positive aspects.
But on a separate thread, in the general philosophy section, we could have a little chat about metaphysics, Nietzsche etc ... and not bore the other folks to tears. I read philosophy daily, as part of my Greco-Roman discipline ... that and practice conjugating my Latin verbs, just like Brian had to do in that movie about the real Jesus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAfKFKBlZbM
Here's the simplest argument against Christianity that I've thought of. Imagine a world that is exactly like this one, except for one thing: God isn't real. You still go to church, you still believe in God, but God himself doesn't exist. What, in your life, would be different? Nothing, because that is the world we live in.
If you talk to God, does he talk back? No. Have you ever seen any miracles, like the dead being raised? No. Have you observed anything from God that could not be explained by random chance? No. Then why do you think that he exists?
Quote from: PickelledEggs on December 06, 2016, 05:14:01 PM
It's still good to know the counterarguments, imo. Although, it is true that the bottom line is that they need to back up their claim.
The counter arguments are just fun bonuses
Yeah, I know what you mean.
But asking specifically for counter-arguments for a specific religion, to me, conjures up the idea that somehow this said religion needs debunking; forgetting that it needs to... bunk? (How do you say that?) first.
What's the point in preparing yourself to take down christian arguments? You might as well spent extra time in thinking up ways to counterargument toothfairyanism, FSM-ism, invisible-teapot-around-neptunism and any other made up -ism one can imagine. If you understand logic and intellectual honesty, you'll already have all the arsenal you need. Doing more just feeds the delusion that there is more worth to one branch of imagination than there is to another. All you say to your opponents is; your ideas are challenging and I need to prepare to take them down.
You don't.
They don't even lift off.
But... that's just my two cents.
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on December 07, 2016, 12:40:16 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean.
But asking specifically for counter-arguments for a specific religion, to me, conjures up the idea that somehow this said religion needs debunking; forgetting that it needs to... bunk? (How do you say that?) first.
What's the point in preparing yourself to take down christian arguments? You might as well spent extra time in thinking up ways to counterargument toothfairyanism, FSM-ism, invisible-teapot-around-neptunism and any other made up -ism one can imagine. If you understand logic and intellectual honesty, you'll already have all the arsenal you need. Doing more just feeds the delusion that there is more worth to one branch of imagination than there is to another. All you say to your opponents is; your ideas are challenging and I need to prepare to take them down.
You don't.
They don't even lift off.
But... that's just my two cents.
Trouble with that line of thought is that
representatives of the Christian religion are avid to turn America into a theocracy (http://www.theocracywatch.org/). It then becomes necessary to debunk it, unlike "toothfairyanism, FSM-ism, invisible-teapot-around-neptunism and any other made up -ism one can imagine." None of those other things is trying to make itself into a totalitarian secular power.
No other religion in the US ... but two ideologies in the US .. Democrats and Republicans ;-(
Quote from: Blackleaf on December 06, 2016, 07:31:44 PM
Here's the simplest argument against Christianity that I've thought of. Imagine a world that is exactly like this one, except for one thing: God isn't real. You still go to church, you still believe in God, but God himself doesn't exist. What, in your life, would be different? Nothing, because that is the world we live in.
If you talk to God, does he talk back? No. Have you ever seen any miracles, like the dead being raised? No. Have you observed anything from God that could not be explained by random chance? No. Then why do you think that he exists?
I feel like this is also a pretty strong argument against the existence of Enceladus, the ice moon of Saturn, though....so maybe not such a strong one?
Quote from: davoarid on September 16, 2017, 09:16:14 PM
I feel like this is also a pretty strong argument against the existence of Enceladus, the ice moon of Saturn, though....so maybe not such a strong one?
Do you expect Enceladus to answer prayers, write/inspire holy books, and make miracles happen?
Quote from: davoarid on September 16, 2017, 09:16:14 PM
I feel like this is also a pretty strong argument against the existence of Enceladus, the ice moon of Saturn, though....so maybe not such a strong one?
What??? Don't get what you are trying to say.
Quote from: davoarid on September 16, 2017, 09:16:14 PM
I feel like this is also a pretty strong argument against the existence of Enceladus, the ice moon of Saturn, though....so maybe not such a strong one?
An ice moon can be directly observed. God cannot. The two things are not equal.
Quote from: Blackleaf on September 16, 2017, 11:18:39 PM
An ice moon can be directly observed. God cannot. The two things are not equal.
Human beings can't be observed either .. they don't exist, there are only semi-random quantum fields.
"Imagine a world that is exactly like this one, except for one thing: God isn't real."
Imagine a world that is exactly like this one, except for one thing: there is no consciousness (people are psychological zombies) ...
https://www.ted.com/talks/david_chalmers_how_do_you_explain_consciousness
Quote from: Blackleaf on September 16, 2017, 11:18:39 PM
An ice moon can be directly observed. God cannot. The two things are not equal.
Is that what he was driving at? I wasn't quite sure what he was trying to say. But if, as you indicate, he thinks 'proving' the existence of any of the planets moons--or the planets themselves--is as difficult as proving god exists, he is simply another blind 'believer' who thinks science is of the devil, or some such baloney.
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 17, 2017, 10:10:32 AM
Is that what he was driving at? I wasn't quite sure what he was trying to say. But if, as you indicate, he thinks 'proving' the existence of any of the planets moons--or the planets themselves--is as difficult as proving god exists, he is simply another blind 'believer' who thinks science is of the devil, or some such baloney.
Of course science is of the devil. The is only one god, the devil. And all things come from god. Therefore all things come from the devil ;-) Monotheism greatly simplifies things, but most Christians aren't monotheists. Are you being bigoted toward the devil? I know you aren't an SJW ... so that is a rhetorical question. SJWs will defend cannibals as an oppressed minority.
Quote from: Baruch on September 17, 2017, 10:51:49 AM
Of course science is of the devil. The is only one god, the devil. And all things come from god. Therefore all things come from the devil ;-) Monotheism greatly simplifies things, but most Christians aren't monotheists. Are you being bigoted toward the devil? I know you aren't an SJW ... so that is a rhetorical question. SJWs will defend cannibals as an oppressed minority.
Yeah, I'd be bigoted toward the devil if he(it) were real; hard to be bigoted toward a fiction. But I do like what the devil wrote in Mark Twain's, Letters From Earth.
This is a tiny bit of what the devil has to say:
“Man is the Reasoning Animal. Such is the claim. I think it is open to dispute. Indeed, my experiments have proven to me that he is the Unreasoning Animal... In truth, man is incurably foolish. Simple things which other animals easily learn, he is incapable of learning. Among my experiments was this. In an hour I taught a cat and a dog to be friends. I put them in a cage. In another hour I taught them to be friends with a rabbit. In the course of two days I was able to add a fox, a goose, a squirrel and some doves. Finally a monkey. They lived together in peace; even affectionately.
Next, in another cage I confined an Irish Catholic from Tipperary, and as soon as he seemed tame I added a Scotch Presbyterian from Aberdeen. Next a Turk from Constantinople; a Greek Christian from Crete; an Armenian; a Methodist from the wilds of Arkansas; a Buddhist from China; a Brahman from Benares. Finally, a Salvation Army Colonel from Wapping. Then I stayed away for two whole days. When I came back to note results, the cage of Higher Animals was all right, but in the other there was but a chaos of gory odds and ends of turbans and fezzes and plaids and bones and flesh--not a specimen left alive. These Reasoning Animals had disagreed on a theological detail and carried the matter to a Higher Court.â€
― Mark Twain, Letters from the Earth: Uncensored Writings
Quote from: Mike Cl on September 17, 2017, 11:15:56 AM
This is a tiny bit of what the devil has to say:
“Man is the Reasoning Animal. Such is the claim. I think it is open to dispute. Indeed, my experiments have proven to me that he is the Unreasoning Animal... In truth, man is incurably foolish. Simple things which other animals easily learn, he is incapable of learning. Among my experiments was this. In an hour I taught a cat and a dog to be friends. I put them in a cage. In another hour I taught them to be friends with a rabbit. In the course of two days I was able to add a fox, a goose, a squirrel and some doves. Finally a monkey. They lived together in peace; even affectionately.
Next, in another cage I confined an Irish Catholic from Tipperary, and as soon as he seemed tame I added a Scotch Presbyterian from Aberdeen. Next a Turk from Constantinople; a Greek Christian from Crete; an Armenian; a Methodist from the wilds of Arkansas; a Buddhist from China; a Brahman from Benares. Finally, a Salvation Army Colonel from Wapping. Then I stayed away for two whole days. When I came back to note results, the cage of Higher Animals was all right, but in the other there was but a chaos of gory odds and ends of turbans and fezzes and plaids and bones and flesh--not a specimen left alive. These Reasoning Animals had disagreed on a theological detail and carried the matter to a Higher Court.â€
― Mark Twain, Letters from the Earth: Uncensored Writings
The devil has all humans by the gonads, we are the devil's children .. theists and atheists alike.
The Mysterious Stranger is Mark Twain's last effort, and the open door to post-Christianity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpaRouocBes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suBwgkhNIKA
The ending is quite interesting, from 1:20:00 onward. Unfinished works usually are. Life is an unfinished work.
Letters From Earth is one of the writings I stumbled across in college that led me to atheism. I haven't read the uncensored version--guess I have some reading to catch up on.
More from the claymation movie ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkYze54wCDI
Quote from: Baruch on September 17, 2017, 11:39:37 AM
The devil has all humans by the gonads, we are the devil's children .. theists and atheists alike.
The Mysterious Stranger is Mark Twain's last effort, and the open door to post-Christianity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpaRouocBes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suBwgkhNIKA
The ending is quite interesting, from 1:20:00 onward. Unfinished works usually are. Life is an unfinished work.
More sad proof you actually believe in the devil and therefore religion in general.
What drives you to such a sad way of life? I mean, you come here, present no good reasons to be a theist of any sort, and you waste your time doing it. Why?
You come here wanting to be the center of an adoring clique of sycophants. Why?
Sorry, but putting your fingers in your ear and saying "la la la" won't make humanity go away, or make it different than it is. Deal with it.