Atheistforums.com

“I marvel...” - The Watcher

Way back in 1992, I envisioned those words as the opening to an imagined Marvel-movie franchise. I figured it should start with the Fantastic Four, and build from there, following the basic timeline of the comic-book universe. In my mind, the X-Men would figure prominently into the Marvel movies.

Now I find myself glad, that the X-Men have been separated into their own “Marvel-Fox Universe.” I don't object to the direction Fox is taking them, and I think there are more than enough stories to tell, for two separate franchises.

But I absolutely despise Fox, for not cooperating with Marvel, to return the rights to the Fantastic Four, somehow. Along with the FF, Marvel would have Galactus, and all of his heralds, specifically Silver Surfer, as well as the Negative Zone and the shape-shifting Skrulls. I see a lot of ways, that all of those things could figure into the Infinity War build-up, as well.

And a big pat-on-the-back to Sony, for cooperating with Marvel to bring home Spider-Man. Very much looking forward to Spider-Man: Homecoming.

I have yet to be disappointed with a Marvel Studios movie. They seem to just keep getting better with each one. I don't go to the movies anymore. But I can't wait for Dr. Strange on Blu-Ray disc.

I've lost a lot of heart with marvel recently. I still hold their older stories, movies and cartoons in high regard, but a lot of their current happenings are just sour to me.

The way marvel of fucking up the x-men, the reason why I became a marvel fan to begin with back in the 90s, is just deplorable, how they are fucking up the very fabric of the x-men universe because of that immature BS with fox not giving the rights back to them make marvel as bad as fox.

The same with the fantastic four, Fox refusing to give rights make, now marvel of refusing to publish FF4 comics because of the greedy fuckers are fox not giving the rights back, that just makes marvel as bad as fox.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyl5ireSOAw

The x-men are what I grew up on, I love the characters, and for me thinking of super heroes makes me think of the x-men from the 90s onward. The allegory of mutants has always been close to me as being gay, so it was something that related to me a lot more then any other super hero team. From that it allows for the broad scope of characters to flourish, and I have today statues of wolverine, beast, storm (I got like 7 statues of wolverine), and loads of old x-men comics and trades.

If marvel were to sweep x-men under the rug, then I have nothing left I want to give marvel.   

I started reading comic-books in the barber shop, when I was about 4 years old. The barber had ragged, ripped up copies of Fantastic Four #1 and X-Men #1. Started buying the new ones, off the shelf, at about the same time - 1970. I also watched the 1960's cartoons of FF, Spider-Man, and other Marvel characters, throughout my youth. When I became a Christian in about 1982, I gave up sci-fi and fantasy literature of any kind, and burned all my books and comic books.

I started up again in 1990, when a comic-book store opened in town. They had the Moebius Iron-Man poster in the window, so I stopped in. I rediscovered the X-Men at that time. For three years, I collected comic books ravenously. I had a complete collection of New Mutants, among others.

That same year, I had the good fortune of moving into an apartment across from an older guy who had collected comic books since he was a little kid, and still had most of them. We became fast friends. He introduced me to a lot wider world of comic-books, and got me started on "Comics Buyers Guide," a newspaper devoted to comic news.

I stopped reading the comics, back about 1993, just before the comic-book bubble collapsed. I haven't seen anything that Marvel, or anybody else, has done lately to make me start up again, especially given how expensive the damn things are now.

I'm so glad I don't have all this baggage when I go to see these movies.

A lot of Marvel's characters have been around for more than half a century. I feel sorry for anyone who never noticed them, until they were movies.

Quote from: Munch on November 20, 2016, 11:42:55 AMI've lost a lot of heart with marvel recently. I still hold their older stories, movies and cartoons in high regard, but a lot of their current happenings are just sour to me.

The way marvel of fucking up the x-men, the reason why I became a marvel fan to begin with back in the 90s, is just deplorable, how they are fucking up the very fabric of the x-men universe because of that immature BS with fox not giving the rights back to them make marvel as bad as fox.

I kinda have mixed feelings about the X-Men.  One one hand, I love the premise and they have lots of compelling characters.  They were one of the four main marvel settings along with the Fantastic Four, Spider Man (the unofficial mascot), and the Avengers.  But when they went big, perhaps they went too big, overshadowing other series.  Wolverine in particular was everywhere.  Imo, he's the John Cena of Marvel.

So maybe it's for the best that they get downplayed for a while until their inevitable return, probably in a tweaked form.  They could possibly be permanently replaced by Inhumans, but I very much doubt it.

*edit - the X-Men are coming back in 2017 under the incredibly clever title, ResurrXion (http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/10/17/new-iceman-comic-book-slides-in-for-spring-2017).

I wouldn't have a clue which is DC or which is marvel.....never cared to know the difference between what or whoever created Bugs Bunny or Yogi Bear either... I was too busy try to survive in a cruel world, carrying water from the creek...huntin an killin stuff to eat.....choppin wood fer da fire place where we huddled for heat and sang songs of jesus and then would go a sneakin round at night trying to see what girl was brave enough to go shit in the woods and see if we could slap her up side the head and marry her....yep....didn't have no damn time fer cartoons.....

Quote from: Hydra009 on November 20, 2016, 01:24:51 PM

*edit - the X-Men are coming back in 2017 under the incredibly clever title, ResurrXion (http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/10/17/new-iceman-comic-book-slides-in-for-spring-2017).

in truth, I find it hard to trust current marvel with whatever they cook up. The x-men from the 90s - 2000 where for me the best the x-men have been, in terms of popularity, but the current trend of a lot of comic books is less the colorful and more grim-dark gritty like aiming for what dc have done a lot, but going so overboard it lost a lot of appeal for me. As someone once said, the difference between marvel and dc was that dc characters were like gods, and marvel were down to earth and more human. Doesn't feel like that as much now for some reason.

And don't get me wrong, I can like dc, not a massive fan of it, but I can take it in doses, like batman the animated series, some of its comics like harleyquin, 90s aquaman, and currently apollo and midnighter (though the Authority series was owned by wildstorm before DC got full control of it). I just liked it better when there wasn't an epic end of the world death of all heroes story every few months. The only marvel title that doesn't seem to bleak and depressing now is ones like deadpool.

My exposure to Marvel and DC were the same for me growing up: Through movies, TV shows, and video games. I rarely touched any of the comics. Now that I think about it, most of my exposure to Marvel was Spider-Man related. The Spider-Man cartoon of the 90s was one of my favorite shows. The Spider-Man movie of 2002 is still one of my favorite super hero movies, and was very disappointed with the reboot. And I played a few Spider-Man video games on the Genesis and Playstation.

Nowadays, I enjoy the Marvel Cinematic Universe. There's no doubt Marvel is the current king of super hero movies right now. But based on some of the stuff I've read, I don't think I'd care much for the comic books.

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on November 20, 2016, 01:06:26 PM
A lot of Marvel's characters have been around for more than half a century. I feel sorry for anyone who never noticed them, until they were movies.

I stopped reading comics around 1962 or -63.

Quote from: Blackleaf on November 20, 2016, 03:46:52 PM

Nowadays, I enjoy the Marvel Cinematic Universe. There's no doubt Marvel is the current king of super hero movies right now. But based on some of the stuff I've read, I don't think I'd care much for the comic books.

Mostly soap operas with big ... muscles.

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 20, 2016, 04:01:54 PM
Mostly soap operas with big ... muscles.

Big muscles aren't what usually come to mind. It seems like they've slimmed down a lot in recent history.

(http://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6karhBT471r41vcso1_500.jpg)

(http://ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/cartoon_peterparker.jpg)

As I said, I haven't read them in a long time. I did get a good laugh at the comic-book crisis in "Civil War".

Gotta admit, the civil war thing really just gets on my nerves now. This whole theme of 'WHICH TEAM ARE YOU ON' bullcrap is just running thin now, whatever happened to heroes fighting villains, now it needs to be EDGY, where ideals clash and heroes fight among themselves!

just.. no, it feels like a marketing gimmick forced on us, the only time it sort of worked with the original batman vs superman comic (the dark knight returns), and considering I hate Frank Millar as a writer is saying something.

Quote from: Munch on November 20, 2016, 05:10:04 PM
Gotta admit, the civil war thing really just gets on my nerves now. This whole theme of 'WHICH TEAM ARE YOU ON' bullcrap is just running thin now, whatever happened to heroes fighting villains, now it needs to be EDGY, where ideals clash and heroes fight among themselves!

just.. no, it feels like a marketing gimmick forced on us, the only time it sort of worked with the original batman vs superman comic (the dark knight returns), and considering I hate Frank Millar as a writer is saying something.

That's just politics. I'm talking about the Accords. Stupid excuse for a war.

Quote from: Munch on November 20, 2016, 05:10:04 PMGotta admit, the civil war thing really just gets on my nerves now.

II or I?

I like the first one, since it touches on the morality of vigilantism - it's kind of a gray area and good arguments could be made either way.  Still, there were a lot of needlessly hotheaded and violent exchanges, though I suppose a comic about people with different views calmly and rationally working out some sort of mutually satisfactory agreement wouldn't sell very well.

Quote from: Hydra009 on November 20, 2016, 06:42:36 PM
II or I?

I like the first one, since it touches on the morality of vigilantism - it's kind of a gray area and good arguments could be made either way.  Still, there were a lot of needlessly hotheaded and violent exchanges, though I suppose a comic about people with different views calmly and rationally working out some sort of mutually satisfactory agreement wouldn't sell very well.

The UN showed no sense of balance at all. Maybe that's not surprising but it was stupid.

Quote from: Hydra009 on November 20, 2016, 06:42:36 PM
II or I?

I like the first one, since it touches on the morality of vigilantism - it's kind of a gray area and good arguments could be made either way.  Still, there were a lot of needlessly hotheaded and violent exchanges, though I suppose a comic about people with different views calmly and rationally working out some sort of mutually satisfactory agreement wouldn't sell very well.

actually you make a point, the first one wasn't that bad, I read the trade. Maybe because it wasn't so hyped up and convoluted at this current one.
Its probably because the way this current civil war is marketed it comes off more like a playground setup of kids using their iron man and captain america toys and thwacking one another yelling "MY TOYS BETTER THEN YOURS!"

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 20, 2016, 04:00:57 PM
I stopped reading comics around 1962 or -63.

Fantastic Four came out in '62, and Spider Man, Avengers and X-Men began in '63. So you picked a piss-poor time to give it up. Couldn't afford the 15 cents anymore?

The comic book version, of Civil War, was after my time. So, as Gawdzilla Sama put it, I don't have so much baggage.

I found the movie to be a fun ride. A good old hero-versus-hero scrap, like the comics. I don't ask for solid reasoning behind it, because it's just a setting for the Avengers to use their powers.

The fun is in the way they have taken 50-year-old characters, that were beloved by geeks, and brought them to life on the big screen. I enjoy seeing them re-imagine their stories, while keeping the essence of each character.

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on November 21, 2016, 02:56:32 AM
Fantastic Four came out in '62, and Spider Man, Avengers and X-Men began in '63. So you picked a piss-poor time to give it up. Couldn't afford the 15 cents anymore?

Nope, I found a library. No more need for comic books.

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on November 21, 2016, 03:18:40 AM
The comic book version, of Civil War, was after my time. So, as Gawdzilla Sama put it, I don't have so much baggage.

I found the movie to be a fun ride. A good old hero-versus-hero scrap, like the comics. I don't ask for solid reasoning behind it, because it's just a setting for the Avengers to use their powers.

The fun is in the way they have taken 50-year-old characters, that were beloved by geeks, and brought them to life on the big screen. I enjoy seeing them re-imagine their stories, while keeping the essence of each character.

Yep, fun to watch, which is why I go to the movies. I put up with comic book crises for a good fight. And that threesome in Siberia was a good fight.

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on November 21, 2016, 03:18:40 AMThe fun is in the way they have taken 50-year-old characters, that were beloved by geeks, and brought them to life on the big screen. I enjoy seeing them re-imagine their stories, while keeping the essence of each character.

Yeah, and they do a pretty good job of it, mostly *glares at Fox*

Marvel took a big risk branching out and greenlighting a variety of superheroes instead of just a couple safe bets.  I respect that.  And I was very pleased with the ambitiously large cast in Civil War.  I can't wait for Infinity War, Ms Marvel, and the Guardians of the Galaxy sequel.

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 21, 2016, 05:58:47 AMNope, I found a library. No more need for comic books.

That's like saying that one has no use for TV shows after finding movies.  The two formats have never been mutually exclusive.

Quote from: Hydra009 on November 21, 2016, 08:48:19 AM
That's like saying that one has no use for TV shows after finding movies.  The two formats have never been mutually exclusive.

For you, probably true.

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 21, 2016, 08:51:18 AM
For you, probably true.

(http://replygif.net/i/919.gif)

Quote from: Hydra009 on November 21, 2016, 09:19:28 AM
(http://replygif.net/i/919.gif)

Just pointing out that books are much more interesting for me than comics. Heinlein made Batman's whinging irrelevant. And I didn't have to pay for them.

It seems like you're trying awfully hard to come up with the semblance of rational reasons to dismiss comics.  If you want to kid yourself, that's fine.  But don't expect anyone else to buy into it.

Quote from: Hydra009 on November 21, 2016, 10:34:04 AM
It seems like you're trying awfully hard to come up with the semblance of rational reasons to dismiss comics.  If you want to kid yourself, that's fine.  But don't expect anyone else to buy into it.

You're the one defending comic books. Fine if that you're thing. Just don't expect other people to agree that they're worthwhile.

Books, comic books, movies, tv shows and games are all their own media and all can be both well thought out peices of art of complete crap. I have found many great works in all these formats, so would never dismiss them since i want to always look for the next good book, comic, game, movie or tv show.

That said, everyone has their own interests and which doesn't extend to others. I for example don't really like sports of any kind, and you could take to me about whatever football game or rugby game you watched, with a passion, but it wouldn't mean anything to me. I just sometimes enjoy the idea of someone enjoying something even if its something I have no interest in.

I remember that "Mars Attacks" was based on bubble gum cards. ;)

Well, sometimes when they try to make something out of something prior, it doesn't go so well. garbage pale kids was a fun, gross kids card game, before they tried to make a movie of it.

What keeps me from buying comics, is a combination of things:

1. Too expensive
2. Inferior artwork (used to be better)
3. Inferior storytelling (too much recap of what has gone before)
4. Serial format (it takes too long to tell a short story)

I've moved on to the movies. The Marvel Studios movies, specifically. Starting with Ang Lee's Hulk, then the Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, Ant-Man, Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy movies, and their sequels. I have a lot of enthusiasm, for the internally consistent universe, that they are trying to build on-screen. It's a fresh and modern take on the Marvel heroes, that really seems to resonate well, not only with Marvel fans, but with the uninitiated as well.

As for the Fox/Marvel universe, I'm excited about Legion(Charles Xaviers son, David Haller), coming soon to FX.

One thing that bugs me, with Fox's choices for the X-Men, is that they have chosen to go with the younger actor for Professor X. Patrick Stewart was born to play the part of Charles Xavier, and I really miss him.

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on November 24, 2016, 07:05:53 AM1. Too expensive

That can vary.  If you're buying trades every month for $4 or $5, I feel your pain.  But a lot of places have them cheaper.  Humble bundle frequently has cheap comics, as do other online retailers.  We're talking a couple bucks or less per comic.

Quote2. Inferior artwork (used to be better)

Somewhat agree.  Again, it varies.  Some old stuff is fantastic, some old stuff is horrid, some new stuff is fantastic, some new stuff is horrid.

(http://www.chasingamazingblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/TwoinOne_03-e1376154648810.jpg)

(http://65.media.tumblr.com/2dc7ad69fb2aa90f318848f2f1f2c710/tumblr_o5db0mXAY91sqep2mo1_1280.png)

All in all, I'd argue that it has gotten somewhat better, though there are modern conventions that bug me - like anime conventions creeping in and a tendency to draw characters with extremely low detail.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/e7/f5/f8/e7f5f8f6412dbd15193b39ef38c85698.jpg)

Though I'd prefer that compared to my old 90s Liefeld comics any day.

(http://comiccoverage.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8345158e369e20115708ce2cd970b-pi)

Quote3. Inferior storytelling (too much recap of what has gone before)

Generally agreed.  There have been some interesting new storylines (particularly from non-DC/Marvel comics companies), but there's an awful lot of crap, too.  I think part of the problem is basically everything's been done before.  Marvel in particular has a very pronounced "simpsons did it" streak.  But every now and then, there's something exciting.

For example, I really liked the Guardians of the Galaxy comics (the 2008-2009 ones).  It's been done before, not even the name is original.  But for a while, they really pulled it off.

Quote4. Serial format (it takes too long to tell a short story)

I love the serial format.  That's part of the reason I prefer comics/books/tv shows to movies.  There's more time to get the audience attached to a character and his/her conflict.  Though I do dislike getting drip-fed a story in 20-30 page chunks, so I'll often wait until there's a backlog then plow through them in short order.

I loved Marvel Comics.  I recall when it was pointed out that Marvel Comics were read by college students and DC comics were read by high schoolers. 

A few years back a friend of mine from high school told me he was gay. Only took fifty years for him to come out, evidently. But relevant to the topic he said that comic books were the closest thing to gay porn to be had back then.

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 02, 2016, 08:12:02 AM
A few years back a friend of mine from high school told me he was gay. Only took fifty years for him to come out, evidently. But relevant to the topic he said that comic books were the closest thing to gay porn to be had back then.

That makes sense...  Strong muscular male figures can be both role models and objects of desire.

Quote from: Cavebear on December 02, 2016, 08:16:47 AM
That makes sense...  Strong muscular male figures can be both role models and objects of desire.

Yeah, we had a good chuckle about that, the anti-gay attitudes in the '60s evidently didn't extend as far as "children's literature".

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 02, 2016, 08:37:28 AM
Yeah, we had a good chuckle about that, the anti-gay attitudes in the '60s evidently didn't extend as far as "children's literature".

Ah, The Comics Code...

Quote from: Cavebear on December 02, 2016, 08:40:08 AM
Ah, The Comics Code...

And the Hays Code for movies. My GF and I decided to see if "it" could be done with one foot on the floor. Turned out not to be a problem.

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 02, 2016, 08:45:06 AM
And the Hays Code for movies. My GF and I decided to see if "it" could be done with one foot on the floor. Turned out not to be a problem.

Who's foot?  Or did you mean one of each of you?  Inquiring minds want to know.  But little is truly new...

"There once was a woman from Norway,
Who hung by her heels on a doorway.
She called to her man,
Who called himself Dan,
Come here, I've discovered one more way"

Forgive me, I have an astounding memory for truly odd stuff...

I had both feet on the floor at the start. We lost track of what we were trying to accomplish a bit later.

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 02, 2016, 10:51:44 AM
I had both feet on the floor at the start. We lost track of what we were trying to accomplish a bit later.

Having both feet on the floor is generally the definition of solid logic...  (*coff, coff*)

Quote from: Cavebear on December 02, 2016, 12:28:02 PM
Having both feet PLANTED FIRMLY on the floor is generally the definition of solid logic...  (*coff, coff*)

Edited for accuracy.

Okayyyy...getting back to the subject...here's a catalog of old comic book covers, I'm perusing. WARNING! DON'T CLICK ON THE LINKS UNDER THE PHOTOS! IF YOU DO; IMMEDIATELY SHUT OFF YOUR COMPUTER, OR YOU WILL DOWNLOAD A NASTY VIRUS! Just viewing the covers seems to be safe, however.
http://www.coverbrowser.com/


I'm looking for the point where I resumed reading them, back in 1989, or 90. It was the Moebius Iron Man poster from that time, that I saw in the window of a newly opened comic-book store, that got my attention, and I went in to check out what was for sale. (The Dark Horse ALIEN comics were in the window as well.)

The X-Men were in the middle of the "Extinction Factor" crossover, with X-Factor and the New Mutants. Jim Lee and Whilce Portacio were the hot artists(I met them later at a convention, and I gave them each a custom screen printed T-Shirt, based on their comic book drawings, and Whilce responded by doing an ink sketch for me - a portrait of Storm).

Over the next 4 years, I read and collected about 2000 comics, old and new. I also honed my drawing style quite a bit, in hopes of becoming a comic book artist myself.

Then the bottom fell out of the comics business, and Marvel(who had seen their stock split during the bubble) almost went under. Pretty much took the wind out of the whole comic-book artist thing. Also I lost my job about that time, and ended up selling all of my comics off for cheap, just for money to live on.

Now, though, I'm content to watch the movies.

Aww sorry to hear you had to sell them all off Zorn :(.
The comic book crash of the 90s was surprisingly the time I got into comics, not from the x-men cartoon series, but from when my brother got my dad to buy copies of the then x-men 2099 series, and it was a format I didn't know about before or was interested in, and got so heavily into it it surprised me to learn of these 'other' x-men who were like the 'past' x-men of the 2099 ones. Then I discovered the cartoon series, and that blew everything away, making me a full on x-men fan. I think it was around then the resurgence of the comic book industry came about, and in I spend like £100 a month on comics.

These days, I don't really buy comic books that often, but I am still someone who believes in buying the proper paperback comics and not digital format. Something about having a proper comic in hand makes it that bit more special. I'm currently buying DCs Apollo and Midnighter, writen by steve orlando, after DC brought out the wildstorm titles. i was a huge fan of the Authority series, but stopped reading when they revamped the roster and team. Now wildstorms pretty much gone and DC owns the rights, but I was glad to see my fav gay super heroes couple who felt like a poke at the idea of superman and batman being a gay couple.

Quote from: Munch on December 19, 2016, 08:02:51 PMThen I discovered the cartoon series, and that blew everything away, making me a full on x-men fan.

Same.  I got super into the X-Men when the series hit.  The show's intro music alone was amazing.  But as far as comics go, I decidedly preferred the Avengers team over the X-Men.  I can't quite put my finger on why.  I guess I just really like Iron Man and Cap.

QuoteThese days, I don't really buy comic books that often, but I am still someone who believes in buying the proper paperback comics and not digital format.

But...but the digital version is the same image quality, doesn't wear out over time, and is more portable and cheaper!  Plus, it's fun to photoshop my friend's head over some of the characters then share them with him.  Heh, it's the little things in life.

I'll never understand this great affection for physicality.  In the far future, when my kind uploads our consciousnesses onto galaxy-wide virtual networks, flickering to and from local space at will - we shall wage war on our physical-only brethren and we shall topple their endless empire!

that I can agree with. which is why I usually scan my fav comics and keep the in the plastic envelops they come with, so I can view them that way, occasionally looking a them proper. I also usually buy a graphic novel version of certain fav stories, which is a much easier way to read them, and keeps the originals in their folders.

Quote from: Munch on December 19, 2016, 09:11:20 PM
that I can agree with. which is why I usually scan my fav comics and keep the in the plastic envelops they come with, so I can view them that way, occasionally looking a them proper. I also usually buy a graphic novel version of certain fav stories, which is a much easier way to read them, and keeps the originals in their folders.

When I was collecting, I read everything. I didn't by much of anything, just to have. But since I liked to keep my comics near-mint, I would place them inside a magazine, while reading them, to avoid fingerprinting the cover.

I wonder if they will introduce Warlock, in the Infinity Wars saga. According to Marvel lore, he should be the owner of the Soul Gem.

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on January 03, 2017, 12:31:00 AM
I wonder if they will introduce Warlock, in the Infinity Wars saga. According to Marvel lore, he should be the owner of the Soul Gem.

marvel movies don't always follow canon. In days of future past, they used wolverine for the time travel story instead of bishop, despite him being in the movie.

I've read some speculation, that the big cocoon in The Collector's museum, was Adam Warlock's.

I always liked that character when I was a little kid. Below is the comic book that I remember most vividly, as my first encounter with him:
(http://earlyretirementdiary.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/strange-tales-178.jpg)

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on January 04, 2017, 03:18:50 AMI always liked that character when I was a little kid. Below is the comic book that I remember most vividly, as my first encounter with him:

I like Warlock, too.  He's a good foil for Thanos.  He acts as a morally neutral cosmic caretaker compared to Thanos's evil cosmic overlord.  And he wields godlike power fairly even-handedly and endures the responsibility relatively well, though of course problems arose.  At the end, he managed to reboot the universe, so there's that.

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 21, 2016, 09:42:54 AM
Just pointing out that books are much more interesting for me than comics. Heinlein made Batman's whinging irrelevant. And I didn't have to pay for them.

I can relate to that.  But for me it was Edgar Rice Burroughs.  Then, later, on to Heinlein.  And others.

Quote from: Hydra009 on January 04, 2017, 10:15:41 AM
I like Warlock, too.  He's a good foil for Thanos.  He acts as a morally neutral cosmic caretaker compared to Thanos's evil cosmic overlord.  And he wields godlike power fairly even-handedly and endures the responsibility relatively well, though of course problems arose.  At the end, he managed to reboot the universe, so there's that.

My favorite on-line continuing novella ... is about a tran-sexed character like your Warlock.  Being first one gender, then another, gives the character a more even perspective (see Tiresias from Greek myth).  The Empress of Time & Space is partially responsible for everything, everywhere ... kind of like a junior vice president to the CEO (G-d).  And per science fantasy, all the magic is advanced science.

Quote from: Baruch on January 04, 2017, 07:53:18 PM
My favorite on-line continuing novella ... is about a tran-sexed character like your Warlock.  Being first one gender, then another, gives the character a more even perspective (see Tiresias from Greek myth).  The Empress of Time & Space is partially responsible for everything, everywhere ... kind of like a junior vice president to the CEO (G-d).  And per science fantasy, all the magic is advanced science.

That sounds interesting, Baruch, but I do believe we have found an area of literature, in which you are completely illiterate: comic-books. Correct me if I'm wrong. You should indulge, a little. There is more than half-a-century of Marvel out there.

Quote from: Munch on January 03, 2017, 07:29:27 AM
marvel movies don't always follow canon. In days of future past, they used wolverine for the time travel story instead of bishop, despite him being in the movie.

Actually, it was Kitty Pryde(Shadowcat), who transferred her consciousness back in time, in the "Days of Future Past" storyline, back in issue 141, long before Bishop.

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on January 05, 2017, 08:21:39 AM
Actually, it was Kitty Pryde(Shadowcat), who transferred her consciousness back in time, in the "Days of Future Past" storyline, back in issue 141, long before Bishop.

Oh right. Sorry brain fart there, comes from the fact I grew up watching the 90s show well before getting into the comics.

Quote from: Baruch on January 04, 2017, 07:53:18 PM
My favorite on-line continuing novella ... is about a tran-sexed character like your Warlock.  Being first one gender, then another, gives the character a more even perspective (see Tiresias from Greek myth).  The Empress of Time & Space is partially responsible for everything, everywhere ... kind of like a junior vice president to the CEO (G-d).  And per science fantasy, all the magic is advanced science.

Check out Heinlein's novel--I Will Fear No Evil.  A man's brain is inserted into a female body; both minds are active.

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on January 05, 2017, 08:02:33 AM
That sounds interesting, Baruch, but I do believe we have found an area of literature, in which you are completely illiterate: comic-books. Correct me if I'm wrong. You should indulge, a little. There is more than half-a-century of Marvel out there.

Sorry, but I am not overly familiar with comic books.  I did read some without paying 5 cents for them, at the store, if the clerk didn't catch me ;-)

Quote from: Mike Cl on January 05, 2017, 10:27:02 AM
Check out Heinlein's novel--I Will Fear No Evil.  A man's brain is inserted into a female body; both minds are active.

Steve Martin ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_with_Two_Brains

I find the idea of being someone else, a fascinating exercise.  Perhaps the thespian in me.  I am not averse to being myself however.

Quote from: Baruch on January 05, 2017, 07:43:34 PM
Steve Martin ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_with_Two_Brains

I find the idea of being someone else, a fascinating exercise.  Perhaps the thespian in me.  I am not averse to being myself however.

I think you would enjoy I Will Fear No Evil--Heinlein is a good author.

Quote from: Mike Cl on January 05, 2017, 07:49:46 PM
I think you would enjoy I Will Fear No Evil--Heinlein is a good author.

I read Stranger In A Strange Land ... it was pretty strange all right ;-)  Thanks for the suggestion.

Quote from: Baruch on January 05, 2017, 07:54:58 PM
I read Stranger In A Strange Land ... it was pretty strange all right ;-)  Thanks for the suggestion.

Stranger in a Strange Land was a little strange. For something that really stretches the limits of good taste, in postulating future morals, read Heinlein's Time Enough for Love.

Here's a collage I made from some images that are available online. I intend to make a few custom T-shirts, for myself and my family.(https://s20.postimg.org/4sx7yoef1/Bring_Them_Home_T_Shirt.jpg)

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on January 10, 2017, 05:03:46 PM
Stranger in a Strange Land was a little strange. For something that really stretches the limits of good taste, in postulating future morals, read Heinlein's Time Enough for Love.

I grok that!

Just finished a corrected board, for my 1/12 scale Silver Surfer model, and I thought you guys might like to see the comic-book corner of my museum. The Iron-Man helmet is wearable, the Watchmen are poseable, and the rest are statues and models.




(https://s20.postimg.org/qtwehn7jx/000_0002.jpg)

(https://s20.postimg.org/rkp4nf9x9/000_0003.jpg)

(https://s20.postimg.org/91fw6vwn1/000_0016_2.jpg)

(https://s20.postimg.org/spj6sswe5/000_0006_2.jpg)

(https://s20.postimg.org/mnglzfe9p/000_0003_2.jpg)

(https://s20.postimg.org/y135amosd/000_0007_2.jpg)

(https://s20.postimg.org/vattdfs3h/000_0014_1.jpg)

(https://s20.postimg.org/lnqb3pz3x/000_0012.jpg)

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on January 12, 2017, 07:43:42 PMThe Iron-Man helmet is wearable

Any luck on a working arc reactor?  A prop is pretty cool, but a working model would be a lifechanger.

Does anyone know how the Cap-Nazi thing worked out, in the comics?

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on January 16, 2017, 10:54:16 PM
Does anyone know how the Cap-Nazi thing worked out, in the comics?

Well they basically did a complete 180 on the thing one month after it was released. After marvel writers making the strong claim this is real and caps always been a hydra agent, the backlash was so heavy against the writers they doubled back on their own words, and quickly resolved it as it Was the red skull using the cosmic cube to screw with reality after all (even through they tried to originally claim it didn't involve anything like reality warping).

Just another example of marvel taking the side door out of something they create, like one more day.

Quote from: Munch on January 17, 2017, 01:36:37 AM
Well they basically did a complete 180 on the thing one month after it was released. After marvel writers making the strong claim this is real and caps always been a hydra agent, the backlash was so heavy against the writers they doubled back on their own words, and quickly resolved it as it Was the red skull using the cosmic cube to screw with reality after all (even through they tried to originally claim it didn't involve anything like reality warping).

Just another example of marvel taking the side door out of something they create, like one more day.

Someday, these comics will be a religion, that people will argue if it was real or not ;-)

Quote from: Baruch on January 17, 2017, 07:04:35 AM
Someday, these comics will be a religion, that people will argue if it was real or not ;-)

"Someday" is here for me, Baby! I have a few religions, and they include Classic Rock, Sci-Fi and Marvel. But I don't have the burden that theists have, of proving it was real. Nothing is real, Baruch.

Quote from: Munch on January 17, 2017, 01:36:37 AM
Well they basically did a complete 180 on the thing one month after it was released. After marvel writers making the strong claim this is real and caps always been a hydra agent, the backlash was so heavy against the writers they doubled back on their own words, and quickly resolved it as it Was the red skull using the cosmic cube to screw with reality after all (even through they tried to originally claim it didn't involve anything like reality warping).

Just another example of marvel taking the side door out of something they create, like one more day.

Thanks Munch. I think it's good that they backed off on that one. It was a stupid idea.

Just about 6 weeks till Doctor Strange comes out on Blu-Ray. :clap:

I.. have such a problem with dr strange. Not the character, comics or anything around him, I've always enjoyed characters like dr strange and dr fate, especially dr fate.
My problem is my inability to separate the actor from the character their playing, if I happen to dislike the actor in question. If I'm just impartial to them thats one thing, but if I genuinely don't like them, even earlier roles they've played before I found that disdain for them can be tainted.
benedict cumberbatch is one of those actors that just pissed me off in recent times, which is a shame because I loved his role as sherlock, but now I find it hard to watch him without getting annoyed at his face.

I know a movie is meant to suspend your disbelief, and get you invested in the world, but sometimes its not enough. I wanted to see dr strange when it was announced, but now, eh.

Mr Cumberbatch plays himself, I don't know that his acting range is greater than that.  So I guess he is strange, even if he isn't a doctor ;-)

I like him. Khan was superb. I haven't seen the one about the gay code-breaker, who committed suicide after being outed, but wasn't he nominated for an Oscar for that one?

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on January 18, 2017, 03:03:36 PM
I like him. Khan was superb. I haven't seen the one about the gay code-breaker, who committed suicide after being outed, but wasn't he nominated for an Oscar for that one?

Yes, he was nominated for best actor in Imitation Game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5CjKEFb-sM

Not very historical ... except in parts ;-)

Before we stray to far from the subject of Captain America, I wanted to say that I never thought too much of that character, when I was a kid. He wasn't as powerful as so many other heroes in the Marvel universe.

But that all changed when I saw Captain America: The First Avenger. I think that is one of the best superhero movies to date. In fact, all three Cap movies have been superb. They have made him into someone interesting, where I had only seen him as mediocre.

Don't remember which comics put them out, but the REAL comic book heroes were The Cisco Kid, The Lone Ranger, Red Ryder, and Hopalong Cassidy!

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on January 19, 2017, 03:30:21 PM
Before we stray to far from the subject of Captain America, I wanted to say that I never thought too much of that character, when I was a kid. He wasn't as powerful as so many other heroes in the Marvel universe.

But that all changed when I saw Captain America: The First Avenger. I think that is one of the best superhero movies to date. In fact, all three Cap movies have been superb. They have made him into someone interesting, where I had only seen him as mediocre.

I got into reading captain america comics for a time, found him sort of interesting back in the early 2000s, but never really put him on a shelf with my fav comic book heroes like wolverine, beast, midnighter, batman and hellboy. 
I was always happy when beast got his own comic book, since he wasn't a mainstream character, it made them pretty special.

(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/3/3c/Beast_Vol_1_1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080523034555)

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on January 19, 2017, 03:30:21 PM
Before we stray to far from the subject of Captain America, I wanted to say that I never thought too much of that character, when I was a kid. He wasn't as powerful as so many other heroes in the Marvel universe.

But that all changed when I saw Captain America: The First Avenger. I think that is one of the best superhero movies to date. In fact, all three Cap movies have been superb. They have made him into someone interesting, where I had only seen him as mediocre.

Yeah, I never really got into Captain America, partially because he seemed like some sort of nationalistic mascot (rah rah America) and partially because he seemed like a bland character - a lawful good paladin.  The kind of guy who covers his eyes during a lingerie commercial and gets deeply offended by casual swearing.

Also, the whole shield as a weapon thing kinda struck me as highly impractical.  *Cap throws shield at enemy, enemy bats shield away, Cap is now unarmed*  Though I suppose it would be unseemly for him to have a pistol or sword or something in the other hand.  Case in point, nationalistic heroes are a dumb idea.

That said, the movies kinda warmed me up to him.  I got a glimpse of a guy who's been through hell, who has been in a leadership role and had to make hard choices, who has his regrets, who has had his disagreements with the government, a guy who isn't Mr Perfect and still gets up in the morning and tries to do the right thing.  There's a lot more under the hood than my first impression.

Though given how high-tech a lot of supers have gotten, it's pretty bizarre to see a hero still employ ye olde fisticuffs successfully.  He'll be on a team with a guy who can throw tanks like they were rocks, a literal god, and a guy in power armor packed with more military hardware than most NATO members but watch out for Cap, he'll punch ya!  Collective team abilities:  expert hacker, weather control, energy projection, teleportation, time travel, and the ability to punch super hard.  :P

(Apologies for picture heavy post, helps with presentation)

Even though this is a more broader concept then just marvel, as the example I'm about to give isn't from marvel, it is still indicative of a problem I have with certain comic book artists or writers. This could just extend into other genres entirely, but sticking to comics for this.

When you have artists and writers in comics, who come up with ideas for characters, lets bear in mind that in the early days of comic book heroes, it all came from an era of very.. plain looking designs. neat cut hairstyles, straight backed and uniform designs, examples like superman, cyclops, marvel girl, captain marvel, the kind of characters with hair and features indicative of those times.

(http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/0/3125/323304-898-124651-1-captain-marvel-adven.jpg)

Over the decades, new characters come about, and even ones from earlier days of comics still around today go though some changes that keep them fresh in the public eye.

(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/4/41/Giant-Size_X-Men_Vol_1_1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20081029113822)(https://annihilusssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/4562/28668/df0a01fd38feb346d14ca8ab04db9a75.jpg?h=ac5f03926e8475f182db3c38d4288c05)

I suppose what I'm getting at though, is how often when I see early comic book designs, theres things about them that don't honestly transfer over to today I would think works outside of that more campy era of comics. Best case in point, Aquaman.

(http://images.superherostuff.com/image-walldeclaquastand-primary-watermark.jpg)

Its been regarded often how aquaman is the biggest joke of a superhero to ever be invented. A guy in orange scaled spandex with poofy hair that rides around on a seahorse and talks to fish. the design and concept just comes off as much a joke as characters like kiteman, whos powers are.. flying around on a kite.

(http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/featured/warner-bros/batman/arkham2/villains/Kite%20Man.jpg)

But then, often when an early hero design is taken into a modern setting, it gets revamped, such as in the 80s when superman was given long hair, or the 90s when the x-men were all multicolored and groovy.

So back to Aquaman, that early design of him was pretty bland, and with silly powers, so later editions of him were given what I consider a far better design overhaul.

(http://www.writeups.org/wp-content/uploads/Aquaman-DC-Comics-Justice-League-a.jpg)
very '90s' look, but they look an altogether bland looking character and breathed some life into him with this, so much so, it crossed over into what I still consider the best animated version of him to date.
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-22-2015/oHaaN8.gif)
I mean, you couldn't get him more removed from that early campy design that was originally thought up, I liked him so much in this series i got the jlu action figure of him. Infact, it seems like THIS is the design they wanted to go for him in the up coming justice league movie, which honestly will probably suck, but props for choose someone like jason momoa as the guy to play him.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-e28O39BXZ0Q/VXCJk-BEbrI/AAAAAAABi2A/VOSiFN0v7OA/s1600/jason-momoa-as-aquaman-by-bosslogic.jpg)

Whatever I take away from justice league, I'll at least be able to say they thought about what to do right with aquamans design and actor to play him, because it feels like this could be the same hardass aquaman from the 90 and JLU.

That said.. and this is what gets me, its very obvious from a design stand point, this is how you update a character as silly as aquaman, to make him intimidating, this aquaman isn't some seahorse riding poofy haired 1960s underwear catalog model, this is how aquaman SHOULD look.

So why then, in the comics, do they insists on keep returning to that silly, campy design for him?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0a/Aquaman_issue_1%2C_the_new_52.jpg)

This was never a likable design, its one of the aspects that people found him being a ridiculous character over, so if its just to pay homage and nostalgia to his original design, it just seems to forgo the fact he was revamped because of how silly that character was. and even if they try to write this aquaman as badass, all I'll think of it is..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Vt11vDjPD0

I know its not marvel related to talk at length about aquaman, but I like to think it extends to examples of when revamping original designs that just don't work, against early designs that can kind of work, like sat captain america or hulk.

Quote from: Munch on January 27, 2017, 08:36:32 PMIts been regarded often how aquaman is the biggest joke of a superhero to ever be invented. A guy in orange scaled spandex with poofy hair that rides around on a seahorse and talks to fish. the design and concept just comes off as much a joke as characters like kiteman, whos powers are.. flying around on a kite.

Aquaman is pretty awesome, just not in the typical crime-fighting role.  He can telepathically communicate with sea life - he could deliver a vast wealth of scientific knowledge to marine biologists and oceanographers.  He could fight oil spills, track red tide, shoo dangerous animals away from populated beaches, etc.  He could even help fight global warming by "farming" vast algae mats.  His underwater kingdom could take in war-fleeing refugees and grant asylum to whistleblowers like Snowden (sorry Feds, no extradition treaties here).  And from what I've heard, post-52 Aquaman had the ability control the ocean itself.  That'd be one hell of a useful trait the next time an undersea earthquake triggers a tsunami or when a category 5 hurricane is going to hit the Caribbean/US.

Lots of supers are like that - they have what I call utility powers, powers that have such massive usefulness in non-combat situations that combat is quite frankly a waste of their talents and time.  Storm, for example, could alleviate droughts and flooding.  Reed Richards and Hank Pym could make all kinds of scientific breakthroughs.

But comics writers want their Earth to closely resemble our Earth (in most ways) - so Reed Richards is useless (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReedRichardsIsUseless).

Where is the love for Plastic Man?????!

Aquaman is a ripoff of Marvel's Namor: The Sub-Mariner.

(http://comicsalliance.com/files/2016/06/Namor-Epting.png?w=630&h=354&zc=1&s=0&a=t&q=89)

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/88/01/21/880121035d15e0756051cf9a819fdcd8.jpg)

First appeared in print, in Marvel Comics #1, October 1939.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namor
"The mutant son of a human sea captain and a princess of the mythical undersea kingdom of Atlantis, Namor possesses the super-strength and aquatic abilities of the Homo mermanus race, as well as the mutant ability of flight, along with other superhuman powers. Through the years, he has been alternately portrayed as a good-natured but short-fused superhero, or a hostile invader seeking vengeance for perceived wrongs that misguided surface-dwellers committed against his kingdom. The first known comic book antihero, the Sub-Mariner has remained a historically important and relatively popular Marvel character. He has served directly with the Avengers, the Fantastic Four, the Invaders, the Defenders, the X-Men, and the Illuminati as well as serving as a foil to them on occasion."

Aquaman first appeared more than a year later. I love the bad-ass look, that the movies are giving Aquaman. But the character, that they seem to be portraying on screen, feels much more like Namor than Aquaman.

Neptune and the nereids strike back!

I liked Namor in the Illuminati (it's not what you think, it's actually a small group of superhumans manipulating major events from behind the scenes.  Okay, so it's exactly what you think.  But they have nothing to do with popular tv shows or music.  Except Beyonce)

Namor kinda had this arrogant asshole alpha male vibe to him, but he mostly makes the right call in the end.  Mostly.  He's very astute and clever and pulls off some surprise wins.  He also seems to be willing to do what he has to be done but sometimes, he also shows restraint - unwilling to cross some moral lines if there are better options.

He's a pretty complex guy.

(https://images.moviepilot.com/images/c_limit,q_auto,w_710/wfsylxwvwqqmiwyxxzf4/fantastic-four-9.jpg)

[insert joke about the FF movie flops]

(https://images.moviepilot.com/images/c_limit,q_auto,w_710/nrt0qrrv9wo1kcbdmhul/disguises-destruction-and-death-10-classic-namor-comic-book-moments.jpg)

Heh, imperius sex.

It has been known marvel and DC has copied one another over the years, but it's pot luck which characters and their copies become the most popular.

https://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=%2F#/watch?v=dk6Dd9UPX1g

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/1f/7e/7b/1f7e7bff8c696f607dc9888eb7361cac.jpg)

I'm not entirely sure if this is correct, but allegedly, Namor was the first flying brick (a superhuman with the powers of flight as well as superhuman strength and durability).  Superman was published first, but he couldn't fly till later.  Namor had the powerset about a year and half before Superman.

Quote from: Munch on February 06, 2017, 04:12:07 AMIt has been known marvel and DC has copied one another over the years, but it's pot luck which characters and their copies become the most popular.

Yeah.  Most of the time, I like the Marvel version better.  I don't know why.  Maybe it's the character design, maybe it's the personality, or maybe the character is a better fit for Marvel's setting.  Or maybe I'm just more familiar with the Marvel counterpart.  Whatever the reason, Marvel ftw.

Namor VS Aquaman
Deadpool VS Deathstroke
Reed Richards VS Plastic Man
Ant Man VS The Atom
Hawkeye VS Green Arrow
Thanos VS Darkseid

Marvel seems a bit more...adventurous with their character designs.  A pretty diverse cast - you name it, and Marvel's got it.  You have tough, serious characters like Winter Soldier, Black Widow, and Nick Fury, but also oddball characters like Speedball, Squirrel Girl, and Groot.  It's a good mix.

Of course, they got that mix by throwing a bunch of stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.  There have been plenty of characters best left forgotten, but that's the price you pay with that method.

While I would agree with most of the comparisons in the video, I completely disagree with the Hulk being a rip-off of Solomon Grundy. They both are large, and wear ripped-up clothes, but the similarities end there. Solomon Grundy was more of a cross between the Swamp Thing, and a zombie. The Hulk, of course, was created by a Gamma-Bomb explosion, and triggered by anger.

By the way, only three weeks left, till Doctor Strange comes out on Blu-Ray!

Quote from: Hydra009 on February 07, 2017, 10:35:57 AM
I'm not entirely sure if this is correct, but allegedly, Namor was the first flying brick (a superhuman with the powers of flight as well as superhuman strength and durability).  Superman was published first, but he couldn't fly till later.  Namor had the powerset about a year and half before Superman.

I didn't know that. After reading, I guess the animators of the 1940's Superman cartoon series, are the ones who asked DC to make him fly, so that they didn't have to waste time with him jumping repeatedly, to cover long distances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6abw3NOYx8A&t=316s

When the head of marvel comics right now, is a self confessed solcial justice warrior, who would gladly fuck up an industry for his political ideology, thats when rational people step back and see how out of touch the current far left are. Also, just saying to you Shi, any argument about girl thor or girl wolverine, doesn't come from a place of rational argument as far as marvel comics right now is concerned, it comes from the warped mind of its current SJW mindset.

SJWs are mostly anti-American, anti-British.  It is an infection from the French!

Anyone remember Jubilee?

(http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/170/76513-88307-jubilee.jpg)

Man how times were cruel to her. She grew to fame thanks to the x-men animated series, being the token annoying sidekick who's powers sucked and was always being rescued. Yet I think people held out hope she'd grow up and learn from her time with the x-men. I even remember reading Generation X, about her and a new class of young mutants learning about their powers.

Then she lost her mutant powers thanks to house of M, tried to go diet tony stark, but that didn't last, and then finally she became a vampire.

going from a teen representative for younger characters in the 90s, so being a depowered mutant, and then a vampire, can't help but think the writers wanted to put her though the works for all the complaints people had of her. Personally I didn't mind her that much. 

(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/6/6b/Vampire_Jubilation_Lee_%28Earth-616%29.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110216032410)

Even as a vampire, she's still wearing that ugly yellow jacket XD

Quote from: Baruch on February 10, 2017, 01:00:43 PM
SJWs are mostly anti-American, anti-British.  It is an infection from the French!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KD24WYmcVsI

Comics are part of the narrative control, if you control the youth, then eventually you control everyone.  Thanks for the post from ... the real Comic Book Man.

Quote from: Munch on February 10, 2017, 07:09:51 PMAnyone remember Jubilee?

(http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/170/76513-88307-jubilee.jpg)

Man how times were cruel to her. She grew to fame thanks to the x-men animated series, being the token annoying sidekick who's powers sucked and was always being rescued.

She was adorable and extremely sympathetic character on Xmen TAS.  From her, you see how average people react to discovering that you're a mutant.  She served as a viewpoint character to all the superpowered craziness going on in that show.

She contributed more than her fair share to the team considering her extremely weak powerset.  She distracted a sentinel and has interrupted a villain about to land a killing blow more than once.  And off the battlefield, she helped some members work through their personal problems, relays info between team members, and looks after younger pupils.  She did an amazing job with what little she had.

I've read that her power had the potential to be much more destructive, but she was holding back.

Quote from: Munch on January 05, 2017, 09:27:01 AM
Oh right. Sorry brain fart there, comes from the fact I grew up watching the 90s show well before getting into the comics.

I started reading Marvel Comics in 1961.  What worries me about them today is that there are too many super-villains who never fight each other.  I mean, shouldn't they be competing?  And WHERE are all those super-villans coming from anyway?  Shouldn't Galactus have eaten them all by now? 

And why isn't there a Marvelecticopedia, so some of us can catch up?  Inquiring minds want to know...

Quote from: Cavebear on February 13, 2017, 05:12:32 AM

And why isn't there a Marvelecticopedia, so some of us can catch up?  Inquiring minds want to know...

I guess they haven't due to marvel wiki existing now.

Quote from: Munch on February 13, 2017, 05:23:54 AM
I guess they haven't due to marvel wiki existing now.

Finally?  Thank You.  I really didn't know.  I'll go there.

Its worth a shot, but like most wiki websites the information in interpreted by the fans instead of a publisher, so its hit or miss if the information is jumbled or not.

Quote from: Munch on February 13, 2017, 07:42:14 AM
Its worth a shot, but like most wiki websites the information in interpreted by the fans instead of a publisher, so its hot or miss if the information is jumbled or not.

I'm glad to see tht someone types as badly as I di!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5Opz4YgG_I

When you're selling stories, coming up with good stories is pretty important.  :P

Quote from: Hydra009 on February 15, 2017, 09:35:02 PM
When you're selling stories, coming up with good stories is pretty important.  :P

Modern dc comic writers don't seem to have a problem with it.

Quote from: Munch on February 15, 2017, 09:39:40 PM
Modern dc comic writers don't seem to have a problem with it.

Ehh...

(http://www.i-mockery.com/comics/longbox7/pics/fierce.jpg)

The occasional Doom-level terrible comic aside, I concede the point.  I'm just not familiar enough with DC to make the comparison.  I only really follow a few Marvel comics and a couple non-Marvel/non-DC titles.  So it'd be like comparing the NFL to the NBA when all I'm watching is Rudy and the occasional Superbowl.

*shivers* eeh.. Frank Miller..

He's the living example of those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Marvel is for college graduates, DC for high schoolers.

This looks like it could be fun:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/f9OKL5no-S0

Gotta love Fight Club!  Like a Millennial version of Trump ... will the snowflakes be triggered?

What, not even a hint at iron fists costume? Deadpool and Ant man pulled theirs off.

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 02, 2017, 03:15:58 PM
This looks like it could be fun:

I can only accept Iron Fist if Luke Cage is also present.  It's a package deal, like Rocket Raccoon and Groot.  Or Spidey and Deadpool.  Or Iron Man and War M...

(http://i.imgur.com/uc03HNk.gif)

I began to wonder, given the franchise and popularity of x-men, and wolverine for decades now, right now with the release of Logan, this is basically more huge jackmans swansong for the role he's played for 17 years.

However, despite beliefs in the character being replaced with tits wolverine, like tits thor, really, that aren't happening, you don't build on the success of a character for decades only to replace them with an undeveloped stand in. You might build them up some, but a character with rich history doesn't just get tossed aside and fans expected to just love a replacement. Clark Kent is superman, Bruce Wayne is Batman, Diana of Themyscira is Wonder Woman, Steven Rogers will always be The captain america (even when hack writers try to make him a nazi and then double back on it), Bruce banner will always be Hulk (even when they try to inject multiculturalism insert Asian hulk), and so on.

But political bed wetting aside, whats been asked around is who, after some years, would be a pick for someone else to play the role of wolverine now that hugh jackman, whos really been the epitome of the character for almost 20 years, has given up the ghost. Just because he's ended the role doesn't mean someone else can't play the character, just like with superman, batman and the hulk.

And really, the only one right now I see could play him off as well, is Tom Hardy.

(http://media.dunkedcdn.com/assets/prod/1814/640x0_p1a8umdb8v1mgc1ubgk4a16vb17cg3.jpg)(http://screenrant0.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/Tom-Hardy-Wolverine-Header-by-Bosslogic.jpg?auto=format&lossless=1&q=90&w=553&h=277&fit=crop)(http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2374226.1443194455!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/wolverine26f-4-web.jpg)

I can see it, only thing is, if by the time they decided to ask Hardy to do it, would he be to old to play the part?

Quote from: Mike Cl on January 04, 2017, 11:30:29 AM
I can relate to that.  But for me it was Edgar Rice Burroughs.  Then, later, on to Heinlein.  And others.

Burroughs was too formulaic. I could tell what was going to happen next very quickly. (Barsoom novels, didn't bother with the monkey-man books.)

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 04, 2017, 06:50:06 AM
Burroughs was too formulaic. I could tell what was going to happen next very quickly. (Barsoom novels, didn't bother with the monkey-man books.)

I never read the novels.  I used to enjoy Tarzan in the old movies as a kid, but the TV show was silly.  I did't enjoy or didn't watch the newer Tarzan movies.  John Carter of Mars the movie, was pretty formulaic, but since I didn't read the novels, it was fresh.

Doc Savage Magazine was the worst, a new "book" every month, same basic plot.

Right now, Marvel seems to corner the box office.  Although, Superman and Batman hold up well to any single Marvel Superhero, DC makes only a feeble attempt to enter the theater market.  Now I see Wonder Woman releases next month.  It's seems like one new DC superhero for every 10 of Marvels.

My parents never let me read those kinds of comics, so I never developed an interest, not even as in "forbidden fruit", but I was wondering if Marvel dominated the comic book market the way it does at the theater?  Is DC a lesser player in comics too?

Quote from: SGOS on March 04, 2017, 10:50:59 AM
Right now, Marvel seems to corner the box office.  Although, Superman and Batman hold up well to any single Marvel Superhero, DC makes only a feeble attempt to enter the theater market.  Now I see Wonder Woman releases next month.  It's seems like one new DC superhero for every 10 of Marvels.

My parents never let me read those kinds of comics, so I never developed an interest, not even as in "forbidden fruit", but I was wondering if Marvel dominated the comic book market the way it does at the theater?  Is DC a lesser player in comics too?

I will be happier to see Wonder Woman, more so than to see Thor ... my choice ;-)

Quote from: SGOS on March 04, 2017, 10:50:59 AM
Right now, Marvel seems to corner the box office.  Although, Superman and Batman hold up well to any single Marvel Superhero, DC makes only a feeble attempt to enter the theater market.  Now I see Wonder Woman releases next month.  It's seems like one new DC superhero for every 10 of Marvels.

Yeah.  Marvel has had huge success in the movies and DC is playing catchup.  Marvel went wide (lots of movies centered on many different characters, taking a lot of risks) compared to DC's tall (few movies centered around few characters, playing it safe) and Marvel's plethora of movies have generally been well received.  There have been some stinkers (Fantastic Four, X-Men Apocalypse) but they've really raked in the cash with the good ones.

Guardians of the Galaxy (2014) 773.3 million USD (Rotten Tomatoes 91%)
X-Men Days of Future Past (2014) 747.9 million USD (Rotten Tomatoes 91%)
Avengers Age of Ultron (2015) 1.405 billion USD (Rotten Tomatoes 75%)
Ant Man (2015) 519.3 million USD (Rotten Tomatoes 81%)
Fantastic Four (2015) 168 million USD (Rotten Tomatoes 9%)
Deadpool (2016) 760.3 million USD (Rotten Tomatoes 84%)
X-Men Apocalypse (2016) 543.9 million USD (Rotten Tomatoes 48%)
Captain America Civil War (2016) 1.132 billion USD (Rotten Tomatoes 91%)
Doctor Strange (2016) 675.9 million USD (Rotten Tomatoes 90%)

In contrast, DC has had fewer releases and therefore fewer hits, especially lately:

Man of Steel (2013) 668 million USD (Rotten Tomatoes 55%)
Batman VS Superman (2016) 872.7 million USD (Rotten Tomatoes 27%)
Suicide Squad (2016) 745.6 million USD (Rotten Tomatoes 26%)

Despite sales figures that aren't terrible by any stretch of the imagination, critical reception has not been kind to DC.  That could really hurt DC in the long run.  Their cinematic future is hanging on their next few releases:  Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Justice League.

QuoteMy parents never let me read those kinds of comics, so I never developed an interest, not even as in "forbidden fruit", but I was wondering if Marvel dominated the comic book market the way it does at the theater?  Is DC a lesser player in comics too?

(http://zak-site.com/Great-American-Novel/images/misc/sales.gif)

More recent market share figures (http://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1/1/3/237?articleID=100122), regrettably not in graph format.

Since 1966, Marvel has generally outsold DC.  DC made a helluva comeback and Marvel's lead has been very narrow some years.  But yes, generally speaking, Marvel is the top player, but DC is still a strong contender.  Marvel's top spot is by no means secure; DC could claw their way to the top in the comics industry if Marvel rests on its laurels.

Quote from: Hydra009 on March 04, 2017, 12:55:21 PM
In contrast, DC has had fewer releases and therefore hits, especially lately:

Man of Steel (2013) 668 million USD (Rotten Tomatoes 55%)
Batman VS Superman (2016) 872.7 million USD (Rotten Tomatoes 27%)
Suicide Squad (2016) 745.6 million USD (Rotten Tomatoes 26%)

Despite sales figures that aren't terrible by any stretch of the imagination, critical reception has not been kind to DC.  That could really hurt DC in the long run.  Their cinematic future is hanging on their next few releases:  Aquaman, Wonderwoman, and Justice League.

Yeah, not being well versed in the comics, I was wondering if DC had fewer characters, but I'm getting the impression here that they have many more, but just haven't developed them into movie characters.

I'm not sure why critics have been so hard on DC.  Superman seemed well worth more than a 55%.  Perhaps, not up to Marvel quality, although in my opinion, that's not the case.  Superman vs Batman (27%) wasn't that great in my opinion, but not much worse than Captain America: Civil War , but I thought the premise of both were dumb out of the gate.  But having said that, Superman vs Batman was at least as good as the average horror flick that gets a 80% from critics.  Suicide Squad was a bit disjointed, but not impossible to follow.  26% seems way underrated, like critics have got a grudge against DC, and automatically discount a DC film for some reason.

The variety in Marvel does count for a lot of my interest, but that shouldn't automatically create a reason to rate individual DC characters so low.  Superman has been in the movies for many more years, starting with the TV series I watched as a kid.  Maybe he's just getting stale, although I still see a lot of potential.

Quote from: SGOS on March 04, 2017, 01:20:34 PMYeah, not being well versed in the comics, I was wondering if DC had fewer characters, but I'm getting the impression here that they have many more, but just haven't developed them into movie characters.

DC has about the same, maybe a little less, characters than Marvel.  It's just that these characters tend not to make it to theaters.  DC tends to lean pretty hard on Batman and Superman, while Marvel has had Spidey, Avengers, and the X-Men as their main draws.

QuoteI'm not sure why critics have been so hard on DC.

I can't talk about Man of Steel or Batman VS Superman, but I saw Suicide Squad and imho, it was terrible.  I wasn't expecting Citizen Kane or anything, I was expecting a fun little anti-hero romp, but the disjointed story, lackluster characters, and poor logic of the film killed it for me.  We're talking 2/10, tops.  If anything, the 26% rating is too generous.  It was a bit upsetting to find out that it had about the same box office as Guardians of the Galaxy - a much, much, much better movie.

QuoteThe variety in Marvel does count for a lot of my interest, but that shouldn't automatically create a reason to rate individual DC characters so low.  Superman has been in the movies for many more years, starting with the TV series I watched as a kid.  Maybe he's just getting stale, although I still see a lot of potential.

I don't personally like Superman very much (for almost identical reasons as Captain America).  It would take one hell of a Superman flick to get me to buy a ticket.

Batman has had his ups and downs, and yeah, it's getting pretty predictable.  But then again, Dark Knight was amazingly good.  Batman has a great rogue's gallery and a really good villain and good story can make up for the weaknesses of the Batman franchise, much like Spider-Man.

Quote from: Hydra009 on March 04, 2017, 02:53:55 PM
It would take one hell of a Superman flick to get me to buy a ticket.

Batman has had his ups and downs, and yeah, it's getting pretty predictable.  But then again, Dark Knight was amazingly good.  Batman has a great rogue's gallery and a really good villain and good story can make up for the weaknesses of the Batman franchise, much like Spider-Man.

I get turned off with Superman and Batman when they are portrayed as battling comical villains, rather than serious criminals or formidable aliens.  There has been somewhat of a transition that helps this weakness recently.  Kevin Spacey, who can be a real badass had his model train layout that proved his land development scheme would work if he had some Kryptonite.  The rest of the movie was fine, but that part was ridiculous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLeGWcVeIZ4

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ad/e4/ee/ade4ee92e92dc9427c0d3d7f9fe29342.gif)

Heh, he recognized Stan Lee.

Anson Mount as Black Bolt in ABC series.

Discuss?

http://deadline.com/2017/02/marvels-inhumans-anson-mount-black-bolt-casting-abc-1202027526/

I don't know him.  So I can't say one way or the other.

But it has to be an actor who can convey a lot from only body language.  Disciplined, determined, somewhat aloof and standoffish but also compassionate.  A difficult character to portray correctly.

Quote from: Baruch on March 04, 2017, 08:03:48 AM
I never read the novels.  I used to enjoy Tarzan in the old movies as a kid, but the TV show was silly.  I did't enjoy or didn't watch the newer Tarzan movies.  John Carter of Mars the movie, was pretty formulaic, but since I didn't read the novels, it was fresh.

I read Doc Savage at 13.  By 15, the books seemed pretty idiotic.  Tarzan made me laugh, too unrealistic.  John Carter didn't even make me laugh.

Quote from: Mike Cl on January 04, 2017, 11:30:29 AM
I can relate to that.  But for me it was Edgar Rice Burroughs.  Then, later, on to Heinlein.  And others.

I read FF, X-Men, Spiderman, Avengers, and so on(not to mention a lot of weird horror comics), before I read much in the way of sci-fi. And I didn't stop reading them, even as I expanded my literary interests.

I was pretty young when I read Edgar Rice Burroughs, Princess of Mars. I remember it painting a vivid picture of the fantastic world of Barsoom. I finally got around to watching the Disney epic, John Carter, just last night. I very much enjoyed it. The story seemed fresh enough to me, despite many of the themes and settings having been frequently borrowed, by many authors and movies throughout the years, prior to John Carter having his day on screen. Barsoom was artfully depicted, and Tars Tarkus, was perfect. It's the only visual interpretation, of Burroughs' Mars series, other than the Marvel comic-book series, that came out back in the 70's.

Watched Doctor Strange, on Blu-Ray, a couple of days ago. I thought it really captured the essence of the comic-book. 

As for the main character, Cumberbatch was very convincing, as a narcissistic surgeon, who is broken by tragedy, and in his search for healing, finds a higher purpose to his life.

Visually, it was stunning, and very innovative in the portrayal of the mirror dimension. The astral-plane, and the space-portals that they opened were cool too.

The story unfolded at a pleasant pace, and fits nicely into the foundation, that Marvel is laying, of Infinity War.

I plan on watching it again.

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 08, 2017, 07:12:36 PM
Visually, it was stunning, and very innovative in the portrayal of the mirror dimension.

I'm not a huge fan of most 3D movies, but this movie shined in 3D, the kaleidoscope effects and the mirror world, especially.

Quote from: SGOS on March 08, 2017, 09:16:23 PM
I'm not a huge fan of most 3D movies, but this movie shined in 3D, the kaleidoscope effects and the mirror world, especially.

My nephew, and great-nephew, saw it in 3D as well. They were blown away.

Thors new look for Thor Ragnarok.

(http://media.comicbook.com/2017/03/thor-ragnarok-chris-hemsworth-237057.jpg)

(http://orig08.deviantart.net/c2ec/f/2011/266/e/3/reaction_face_by_bloodstaind511-d4apw5i.jpg)

Nope!

He's gone from looking like a godly, empowering figure, to looking like a reject from stargate.

I have to agree. Also whats with the swords and shield? And where's Mjolnir?

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 09, 2017, 12:59:11 PM
I have to agree. Also whats with the swords and shield? And where's Mjolnir?

unless.... oh no... :S

(http://i.imgur.com/5jGwGqy.jpg)

Cultural Marxists have managed to confuse everyone, even themselves.  Thanks to narcissism though, they can always auto-fellate ;-)

(http://i.imgur.com/5jGwGqy.jpg)

God of Thunder forbid!

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 09, 2017, 10:09:54 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/5jGwGqy.jpg)

God of Thunder forbid!

She makes a nice Brunhilda though ... don't mess with Bruni!

https://youtu.be/vOIugcKs1mY

Quote from: Munch on March 09, 2017, 02:07:34 PM
unless.... oh no... :S

(http://i.imgur.com/5jGwGqy.jpg)

OMG!  A female Thor...  But Odin has said whoever has the Will can become Thor. And I remember back when Dr Don Blake grabbed a stick in a cave and became Thor in the presence of nurse Jane Foster.  I remember a lot of awkward comics origin stories, LOL!  My favorite is Sgt Nick Fury becoming a black guy.  Fine with me, but I do smile sometimes...

Quote from: Cavebear on March 14, 2017, 09:37:44 AM
OMG!  A female Thor...  But Odin has said whoever has the Will can become Thor. And I remember back when Dr Don Blake grabbed a stick in a cave and became Thor in the presence of nurse Jane Foster.  I remember a lot of awkward comics origin stories, LOL!  My favorite is Sgt Nick Fury becoming a black guy.  Fine with me, but I do smile sometimes...

Felix Lighter, the CIA contact James Bond ran into frequently, has been male and female and at least three different ethnicities.

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 14, 2017, 03:22:43 PM
Felix Lighter, the CIA contact James Bond ran into frequently, has been male and female and at least three different ethnicities.

Changlings have to be alien .. so good reason to not trust the CIA ;-)

Less than 6 weeks till Guardians of the Galaxy 2 comes out! May 5th.

Every time I walk past the poster of GotG2 and see Dave Bautista as Drax, I always do a double take to get an extra look in.

(http://screenrant2.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Guardians-of-the-Galaxy-2-Teaser-Poster.jpg?auto=format&cs=tinysrgb&q=20&w=945&h=1399&fit=crop&dpr=1.5)

Quote from: Munch on March 26, 2017, 07:50:30 PM
Every time I walk past the poster of GotG2 and see Dave Bautista as Drax, I always do a double take to get an extra look in.

(http://screenrant2.imgix.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Guardians-of-the-Galaxy-2-Teaser-Poster.jpg?auto=format&cs=tinysrgb&q=20&w=945&h=1399&fit=crop&dpr=1.5)

Zoe Saldona is hot, but I kind of compartmentalize, when it comes to sex, and more cerebral interests, like comic books, and sci-fi /superhero movies.

Well me I'm always thinking up slash fiction with any medium

Quote from: Munch on March 26, 2017, 08:15:12 PMWell me I'm always thinking up slash fiction with any medium

Yondu/Nebula

You'll never be able to unthink it.  :)

Okay, I know I may seem a little obsessed with returning the FF, to Marvel, but here's an idea I had:

Let's say that the FF license was returned to Marvel this year. I propose that Marvel do a retroactive history, treating the FF as if they came on the scene first...BUT..the story takes place on an alternate Earth(of which there are many, in the Multiverse). All that is required, is to bring them to our Earth, via one of the Infinity Stones. Result: an FF with a history, inserted into the timeline, without disrupting the continuity.

One feature of this take on the integration, is that the FF may already know some of the other heroes, but from a different Earth...

(https://images.moviepilot.com/image/upload/c_fill,h_470,q_auto:good,w_620/uploads_f43c2127-af9a-4c79-8fdd-2b2b8d35ca50-fantastic_four-jpeg-12163.jpg)

To construct a Fantastic Four foundation, you first need...

...Reed Richards(Mr. Fantastic). The genius/scientist. I would have him struggle with deciding, between several different potential paths, for himself and the team. Perhaps one is accepting funding from the government, and the alternative is accepting funds from Stark. Who knows. But he starts out completely oblivious to the adoration of his assistant...

...Sue Storm(The Invisible Woman). She is a stunningly beautiful young scientist, who admires Reed's intellect, and finds his seeming indifference, to be more attractive, than the average drueling male. I haven't yet fleshed out any thoughts for her brother...

...Johnny Storm(The Human Torch). He was my great-nephew's favorite character, from the 2005 movie. Called him "Johnny Flame." I was always partial to their friend, and pilot...

...Benjamin Grimm(The Thing). The rubber suit, that Fox used in the first two films, was an embarrassment to FF fans. Doing the Thing properly, requires CGI. But doing the story right is the most important thing.

If the FF returned, we could have the Silver Surfer in Avengers: Infinity War. He and Thanos, are old adversaries.

Yeah, that'd work.  Reed could've been tinkering and accidentally sent the FF to the MCU (Earth-199999).

Accounting for Doctor Doom could be a problem, but I think he could be introduced after the FF make their MCU debut.  IIRC, Doom's origin was from to trying to build a machine to talk with the dead, made some mistake, the machine exploded and damaged his face.  He traveled the world, met Tibetan monks (maybe we could see some familiar faces from the Dr Strange movie), mastered magic, built his suit, and took over Latveria.

The FF could fight Doom when his country makes aggressive moves, possibly opportunistically during/after a major crisis.

Movie #1:  FF come to the universe, team-up with existing heroes to resolve whatever crisis is going on
Movie #2:  FF VS Dr Doom

Galactus teams up with Thanos and Dormammu?

Quote from: Hydra009
Yeah, that'd work.  Reed could've been tinkering and accidentally sent the FF to the MCU (Earth-199999).

I'm thinking jump right into the Galactus/Silver Surfer story, except after Reed finds the Ultimate Nullifier, in Galactus' possession, and uses it to force Galactus to back off, on devouring the earth, the movie would end as Galactus takes revenge, using an infinity stone, to transport the FF into the middle of New York, in our universe, and the first one to investigate their appearance, is Spidey. Leaving it set up for the sequels to integrate them into our earth. This also sets up Reed, to have some prior experience with the infinity stones, when Infinity War begins. In an after-the-credits scene, show Silver Surfer emerge from a wormhole, into our universe...He sets off, in search of Zen-La...(In a subsequent storyline, he tells Reed that Galactus ended-up devouring their Earth, and there is no reason to try to go back.)

Quote from: Hydra009Accounting for Doctor Doom could be a problem, but I think he could be introduced after the FF make their MCU debut.  IIRC, Doom's origin was from to trying to build a machine to talk with the dead, made some mistake, the machine exploded and damaged his face.  He traveled the world, met Tibetan monks (maybe we could see some familiar faces from the Dr Strange movie), mastered magic, built his suit, and took over Latveria.

The FF could fight Doom when his country makes aggressive moves, possibly opportunistically during/after a major crisis.

Movie #1:  FF come to the universe, team-up with existing heroes to resolve whatever crisis is going on
Movie #2:  FF VS Dr Doom

We've seen Doom before, in the Fox crap. Maybe go with the Skrulls, this time...

Or better yet, maybe follow with a Silver Surfer movie...

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 30, 2017, 12:05:44 PM
Galactus teams up with Thanos and Dormammu?

With the Infinity Gauntlet, in his possession, Thanos has no use for Galactus or Dorrammu. They will be kissing his Titan ass.

You know, I'm just not seeing anything that makes me regret having quit reading all Marvel titles back around '92 or so.  I'm gonna just sit here and wish I'd kept all the Jack Kirby FFs I bought off the rack when I was a little guy.

Quote from: trdsf on March 30, 2017, 03:32:54 PM
You know, I'm just not seeing anything that makes me regret having quit reading all Marvel titles back around '92 or so.  I'm gonna just sit here and wish I'd kept all the Jack Kirby FFs I bought off the rack when I was a little guy.

I quit in "94, and I too wish I still had all my comics now...

Guardians of the Galaxy 2 introduces a new character: Mantis. So I thought I would look up her history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis_(Marvel_Comics)

QuoteMantis is the half-Vietnamese, half-German daughter of Gustav Brandtâ€"Libraâ€"and was born in Huế, Vietnam. In her childhood, her father leaves her in Vietnam at the Temple of the alien Priests of Pama, a sect of the Kree. The Kree believe she might become the Celestial Madonna and mate with the eldest Cotati on Earth to become the mother of the Celestial Messiah, "the most important being in the universe".

(http://cdn.movieweb.com/img.news.tops/NEFwORY7Aiy8JH_1_b.jpg)

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 30, 2017, 03:45:17 PMGuardians of the Galaxy 2 introduces a new character: Mantis. So I thought I would look up her history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis_(Marvel_Comics)
(http://cdn.movieweb.com/img.news.tops/NEFwORY7Aiy8JH_1_b.jpg)

New in the sense that up until now, she hasn't been in the movies.

She's one of my favorite characters from the 2008 Guardians of the Galaxy comics.  In that series, her primary roles are counselor (Peter Quill's main advisor) and exposition dump.  She's Troi and M in one package.  She hooks the gang up with a lot of their missions and teeps the gang together.  I mean she keeps the gang together.  Damn autocorrect.

She's also a decent frontline combatant with martial arts moves and can give team members advance warning of most threats.  Great melee/support role.

This one is the kindest, most amiable member of the team.  But don't let that fool you.  She can dropkick the best of them.

I'm a bit miffed that her skin isn't green in movie.  I guess they didn't want her to look too much like Gamora.  Or maybe make her green clothes stand out a bit more.  But the gang wears a lot of black and red (which are normally bad-guy colors), so I don't get the rationale behind the change.

Plus, I've seen cosplays (https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2936/14627001527_4c97a03cd3_b.jpg) of Mantis (http://pre07.deviantart.net/f41f/th/pre/f/2014/189/e/3/mantis___guardians_of_the_galaxy_by_iamchipi-d7psoho.jpg) that look better than the MCU version.  Forshame.

Quote from: trdsf on March 30, 2017, 03:32:54 PM
You know, I'm just not seeing anything that makes me regret having quit reading all Marvel titles back around '92 or so.  I'm gonna just sit here and wish I'd kept all the Jack Kirby FFs I bought off the rack when I was a little guy.

I quit reading comic books in 1963. Found scifi books and that just killed the comics.

Quote from: Hydra009
New in the sense that up until now, she hasn't been in the movies.

Been around since 1973.

Quote from: Hydra009She's one of my favorite characters from the 2008 Guardians of the Galaxy comics.  In that series, her primary roles are counselor (Peter Quill's main advisor) and exposition dump.  She's Troi and M in one package.  She hooks the gang up with a lot of their missions and teeps the gang together.  I mean she keeps the gang together.  Damn autocorrect.

She's also a decent frontline combatant with martial arts moves and can give team members advance warning of most threats.  Great melee/support role.

This one is the kindest, most amiable member of the team.  But don't let that fool you.  She can dropkick the best of them.

Looks like an interesting character. I don't honestly recall her though. My comic book experience with the Guardians of the Galaxy, is with Vance Astro, Martinex, Charlie 27, and Yondu, with Starhawk, Aleta and Nikki, added later.

Quote from: Hydra009I'm a bit miffed that her skin isn't green in movie.  I guess they didn't want her to look too much like Gamora.  Or maybe make her green clothes stand out a bit more.  But the gang wears a lot of black and red (which are normally bad-guy colors), so I don't get the rationale behind the change.

Non-green women need more representation, in sci-fi/superhero movies.

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 30, 2017, 04:54:45 PM
I quit reading comic books in 1963. Found scifi books and that just killed the comics.

And like so many old men...you are repeating yourself, Grandfather...

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 30, 2017, 05:02:32 PM
And like so many old men...you are repeating yourself, Grandfather...

Yeah, and that's why I gave up reading comics in 1963. Sonny.

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 30, 2017, 05:01:16 PMMy comic book experience with the Guardians of the Galaxy, is with Vance Astro, Martinex, Charlie 27, and Yondu, with Starhawk, Aleta and Nikki, added later.

The series was relaunched in 2008, that was my starting point.  Very different characters, but some of the old characters make an appearance.  Definitely worth checking out.  Also, the original Guardians have their own series:  Guardians 3000 (https://comicvine.gamespot.com/guardians-3000/4050-77224/).

I just discovered this NEW trailer for Guardians of the Galaxy 2!

I'm speechless...


https://www.youtube.com/embed/duGqrYw4usE

Can't wait for Awesome Mix Vol.2...

Lots of people with gold skin, including Her (http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Ayesha_(Earth-616)).  Fingers-crossed for Adam Warlock?

From the last trailer, I thought the Lovecraftian octopus monster was a clear reference to the Cancerverse, but they're already overbooked on villains with Ayesha, Ego, the Ravagers, and Pete's old man, so that's likely not it.  Maybe they're saving that for Vol 3.

This one looks promising too(a brand new one):


https://www.youtube.com/embed/39udgGPyYMg

Quote from: Hydra009 on March 30, 2017, 06:26:07 PM
Lots of people with gold skin, including Her (http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Ayesha_(Earth-616)).  Fingers-crossed for Adam Warlock?

One of my childhood favorites. When I was little, I once found an elliptical polished-stone, in some souvenir store, and glued it to my forehead with Elmer's glue. My "Soul Gem."

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 30, 2017, 06:27:44 PMThis one looks promising too(a brand new one):


https://www.youtube.com/embed/39udgGPyYMg

That new Spider-Man movie looks great.  Maybe I'll enjoy a Spider-Man movie for a change.  I'd prefer Sony to hand him back to Marvel, but I guess joint custody will do for now.

Tony Stark is more of a douche than I've come to expect (the trailer has him going from jerk with a heart of gold to a borderline malicious jerk.  There's a fine line, trailer)  But Spidey telling Tony that "I'm nothing without this suit" is a VERY BAD choice of words with that guy.  For starters, it's a painful reminder of how Tony would be dead without the armor.  Second, Tony's big on developing inner strength and the armor as an extension of the self.  If your attitude is that you don't have to grow because the suit will do everything for you, you're already lost.  Also, Spidey is selling himself short bigtime, which I'm sure pisses off the guy trying to mentor him.

Maybe this all makes more sense in the film than the trailer, but I really hope both Spidey and Iron Man get decently written.

I stopped watching the Spider-Man movies after Tobey Maguire was no longer in them.

Quote from: Sorginak on March 30, 2017, 07:00:16 PM
I stopped watching the Spider-Man movies after Tobey Maguire was no longer in them.

Those movies weren't bad, but you should give Marvel a chance to redeem the character.

Quote from: Hydra009
That new Spider-Man movie looks great.  Maybe I'll enjoy a Spider-Man movie for a change.  I'd prefer Sony to hand him back to Marvel, but I guess joint custody will do for now.

As long as Marvel and Sony are using the same actors, and  story-continuity, I welcome more money in the process.

Quote from: Hydra009Tony Stark is more of a douche than I've come to expect (the trailer has him going from jerk with a heart of gold to a borderline malicious jerk.  There's a fine line, trailer)  But Spidey telling Tony that "I'm nothing without this suit" is a VERY BAD choice of words with that guy.  For starters, it's a painful reminder of how Tony would be dead without the armor.  Second, Tony's big on developing inner strength and the armor as an extension of the self.  If your attitude is that you don't have to grow because the suit will do everything for you, you're already lost.  Also, Spidey is selling himself short bigtime, which I'm sure pisses off the guy trying to mentor him.

Maybe this all makes more sense in the film than the trailer, but I really hope both Spidey and Iron Man get decently written.

I like Douchebag-Tony. He reminds me of the theme song from the old 1960's cartoon series, "Tony Stark makes you feel, He's a cool exec, with a heart of steel..."

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 30, 2017, 06:05:51 PM
I just discovered this NEW trailer for Guardians of the Galaxy 2!

I'm speechless...


https://www.youtube.com/embed/duGqrYw4usE

Can't wait for Awesome Mix Vol.2...

(http://i.imgur.com/wOe5u1K.gif)

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on March 30, 2017, 07:05:48 PMThose movies weren't bad, but you should give Marvel a chance to redeem the character.

I really liked Spider-Man (2002).  A certain event the prior year kinda made it important to have an uplifting film in the Big Apple.

I wasn't too keen on Spider-Man 2 (2004).  I like Doctor Octopus, but goddam, he was a trainwreck.  And his plan was so goddamn stupid it beggers belief.  So much ham (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua8C_vsEc50).

I heard far too many bad things about Spider-Man 3, so I passed on it.

Same with Amazing Spider-Man, but I watched it pretty recently out of curiosity.  I swear, that kid is on the autism spectrum, not that there's anything wrong with that.  He just behaves oddly around other people.  Also, he has this weird habit of talking with his mouth almost completely closed and not making eye contact.  He practically whispers all his dialogue.  I had to turn closed-captions on to figure out what he was saying.

I found his origin story tedious (thank God MCU Spidey skipped that part), I liked Gwen, but I really liked Denis Leary.  Denis Leary's character is awesome and made a few good points, too.  Denis Leary saved that movie.  Single-handedly pushed it from underwhelming to whelming.  I am whelmed.

I never saw Amazing Spider-Man 2, and I don't plan on it.

Doc Ock was a mad scientist.

Quote from: Hydra009
I really liked Spider-Man (2002).  A certain event the prior year kinda made it important to have an uplifting film in the Big Apple.

It was also a groundbreaking new "realistic" treatment of the character. Just the scenes of Spidey swinging through the streets of New York, made the film worthwhile.

Quote from: Hydra009I wasn't too keen on Spider-Man 2 (2004).  I like Doctor Octopus, but goddam, he was a trainwreck.  And his plan was so goddamn stupid it beggers belief.  So much ham (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua8C_vsEc50).

Visually, I loved it, but the story was disappointing.

Quote from: Hydra009I heard far too many bad things about Spider-Man 3, so I passed on it.

I liked Sandman, in Spider-Man 3, but I've never been a fan of Venom. Plus I thought that Topher Grace was wasted on Eddie. He should have been the actor to take Tobey Maguire's place, as Spider-Man.

Quote from: Hydra009Same with Amazing Spider-Man, but I watched it pretty recently out of curiosity.  I swear, that kid is on the autism spectrum, not that there's anything wrong with that.  He just behaves oddly around other people.  Also, he has this weird habit of talking with his mouth almost completely closed and not making eye contact.  He practically whispers all his dialogue.  I had to turn closed-captions on to figure out what he was saying.

I found his origin story tedious (thank God MCU Spidey skipped that part), I liked Gwen, but I really liked Denis Leary.  Denis Leary's character is awesome and made a few good points, too.  Denis Leary saved that movie.  Single-handedly pushed it from underwhelming to whelming.  I am whelmed.

I never saw Amazing Spider-Man 2, and I don't plan on it.

I didn't like the idea of Sony rebooting the Spider-Man franchise, with that movie. I find his origin story, to be one of the least interesting, of all the Spider-Man tales.

The Marvel Universe is complicated.  The heroes have problems, the villains have reasons, the really out-of-this-world types like Galactus and the Watchers are incomprehensible.  Peter Parker has problems, Magneto and Wolverine are conflicted, Ben Grimm wants to be human, the Inhumans don't want to be, origins get fucked around with, and movie-makers decide to change whatever they want.

It's enough to make an old Marvel comics fan tear his tendrils off!

I had a friend, and his wife, visiting for a couple of hours, last night. Among other things, we watched a few trailers...

They loved the Guardians of the Galaxy 2, Spider-Man Homecoming and Deadpool 2 trailers, but when those were done, we watched the trailer for DC's Justice League...WOW!...What a difference!...DC heroes still seem campy as ever...even with Batman along for the ride.

Quote from: Cavebear on March 31, 2017, 04:41:35 AM
The Marvel Universe is complicated.  The heroes have problems, the villains have reasons, the really out-of-this-world types like Galactus and the Watchers are incomprehensible.  Peter Parker has problems, Magneto and Wolverine are conflicted, Ben Grimm wants to be human, the Inhumans don't want to be, origins get fucked around with, and movie-makers decide to change whatever they want.

It's enough to make an old Marvel comics fan tear his tendrils off!

I like that about Marvel.  They really try to give the characters semi-realistic personalities - goals and motivations that make sense.

Peter Parker wants success in life but he also feels compelled to help fight crime, partially out of guilt for Ben's death.

Tony Stark found out the error of his company's ways the most painful way possible.  He became Iron Man to save his own life and sought to clean up his company, creating many enemies in the process, ensuring his continued need to suit up.  He's also tried to clean up the world at large - actively influencing developments in technological industries and the superhero community to attempt to change the future for the better.

The Guardians of the Galaxy are misfits who ordinarily wouldn't have anything in common, but a couple of them have seen some really nasty galactic crises up close and personal and vowed to proactively guard against the next one.  They cajoled the others into joining up.  Not everyone is particularly heroic and many have their own separate, personal goals but they recognize that the proverbial crap is hitting the fan and there's no one else out there dealing with it, so it falls on them.

Quote from: Hydra009 on March 31, 2017, 11:39:17 AM
I like that about Marvel.  They really try to give the characters semi-realistic personalities - goals and motivations that make sense.

Peter Parker wants success in life but he also feels compelled to help fight crime, partially out of guilt for Ben's death.

Tony Stark found out the error of his company's ways the most painful way possible.  He became Iron Man to save his own life and sought to clean up his company, creating many enemies in the process, ensuring his continued need to suit up.  He's also tried to clean up the world at large - actively influencing developments in technological industries and the superhero community to attempt to change the future for the better.

The Guardians of the Galaxy are misfits who ordinarily wouldn't have anything in common, but a couple of them have seen some really nasty galactic crises up close and personal and vowed to proactively guard against the next one.  They cajoled the others into joining up.  Not everyone is particularly heroic and many have their own separate, personal goals but they recognize that the proverbial crap is hitting the fan and there's no one else out there dealing with it, so it falls on them.

I'm not sure I'm ready for "I AM GROOD" or some technician in a racoon body for 20 years.  I get the clever leader and the BIG STRONG GUY.  As opposed to Invisible Woman, Flaming Torch, Stretchy Genius Guy, and Big Strong Guy.  Or Avengers. 

Oh, OK, give me some time...  I'll probably like them EVENTUALLY.

Tony Stark is a favorite.  He's an ass, but knows it (well sometimes you just are).  Thor doesn't.  Hulk SMASH but he knows his skill (and that he waited for permission in a movie was cool), Captain America is age-lost. 

Things change.  Nick Fury is a black guy, which is fine, but I can't resolve that with the old rather racist comics.   Those were the first ones I sold off.  I discovered I didn't like his stereotypical squad.  I sort of accepted it when he becamae the Head of Shield, but I never liked that change.  But the early Shield comics were graphicall spectacular.  But still...

Life moves on.

You know why the Avengers exist?  Stan lee and the head of DC comics played golf once and the DC guy bragged about having a group of weird superheroes.  Lee already had the Fantastic Four, but they weren't strange enough (though that was was the first time Ben Grimm left the group).  When Lee got to the office, he demanded a new crazy group.  BY MONDAY.  Thus the Avengers. LOL!

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on March 30, 2017, 04:54:45 PM
I quit reading comic books in 1963. Found scifi books and that just killed the comics.

That too.  And our APA was also cruising along pretty well at that time, so I was having a lot more fun writing supers than reading them.

fans not happy with thors new look.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/help-has-thors-hair-gone-fans-arent-happy-chris-hemsworths-new/

Can't blame them. I get the point of it being thor at his lowest point, but even in the comics when he's been stripped of his hammer and given an axe in unworthy thor, he kept his long hair.

(https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111135257/4743783-tumblr_nc29zthidb1r95nllo2_500.png)

at least for a time. I dunno, just doesn't look very godly him having short hair like every other hero in comics. Also as someone who advocates for guys having long hair and it not being seen as something only women should have, likewise women can have short hair all they want, to me Thor was a great example of guys looking great with long hair.

Eh, whatever though, its just a phase, though I would mention the only time aquaman was considered awesome, was when he had a mullet.

(https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11124/111244877/5041789-giphy.gif)

New Thor ... Samson and Delilah schtick.

I'm not sure what to think of this one. It looks to be something a little a bit different from most Marvel stuff. I never had any interest in the comic book(although I'm pretty sure I owned the first issue):

https://www.youtube.com/embed/E5hrFVQiGyk

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on April 19, 2017, 08:49:16 PMI'm not sure what to think of this one. It looks to be something a little a bit different from most Marvel stuff. I never had any interest in the comic book(although I'm pretty sure I owned the first issue):

I've never particularly cared about Cloak and Dagger.  I can't even figure out what exactly is unappealing about them.  They just give off a very meh impression.  I think it could be their powers.  Or their status as street-level heroes.  It's surprising that they're getting their own TV show ahead of a bunch of much more well-known names.

Sort of the same, never cared one way or the other about cloak and dagger. However, I have a slight pet peeve with how marvel production these series and them not feeling at all interconnected with the rest of the marvel franchise.

To me, in the comics, everything felt connected, avengers, X-Men, Spiderman, fantastic four, as if you could come across any super hero in the world and the effects of major events were felt across the spectrum.

Here through, it's just so self contained, like maybe their guest star someone like Luke cage and daredevil, but if not, it just doesn't feel like marvel to me.

Quote from: Hydra009 on April 19, 2017, 10:33:53 PM
I've never particularly cared about Cloak and Dagger.  I can't even figure out what exactly is unappealing about them.  They just give off a very meh impression.  I think it could be their powers.  Or their status as street-level heroes.  It's surprising that they're getting their own TV show ahead of a bunch of much more well-known names.

It's easier to do a series about lesser-known characters because you don't have decades of canon to wallow through that creates cliques of obsessive fans bitching that THEY'RE DOING IT ALL WRONG!!!11!1!!

In that case, they should do a Darkhawk TV show.  :p

I wish I had every "comic" book Marvel every produced.  I bought  Fantastic Four #1 for 12 cents and kept buying them.  Spiderman, Thor, Avengers, etc.  Loved re-reading them.  Sold them all in the late 70s for rent money.  Wish I had them back now.

I would read them, not sell them now.

Hey, I just found this picture of what Clark Kent's facial hair was like:




(http://mataku.co/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/weird-beard-6.jpg)



No wonder no one recognized him!

Quote from: Unbeliever on May 09, 2017, 06:18:53 PM
Hey, I just found this picture of what Clark Kent's facial hair was like:

No wonder no one recognized him!

http://mataku.co/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/weird-beard-6.jpg

Corrected your bad URL

Quote from: Cavebear on April 21, 2017, 05:16:01 AMI bought  Fantastic Four #1 for 12 cents and kept buying them.  Spiderman, Thor, Avengers, etc.  Loved re-reading them.  Sold them all in the late 70s for rent money.  Wish I had them back now.

I would read them, not sell them now.

There are ways to read them now.  *winks with both eyes*

Quote from: trdsf on April 20, 2017, 12:55:43 PM
It's easier to do a series about lesser-known characters because you don't have decades of canon to wallow through that creates cliques of obsessive fans bitching that THEY'RE DOING IT ALL WRONG!!!11!1!!

"Fuck you" would work for me in that case.

Quote from: trdsf on April 20, 2017, 12:55:43 PM
It's easier to do a series about lesser-known characters because you don't have decades of canon to wallow through that creates cliques of obsessive fans bitching that THEY'RE DOING IT ALL WRONG!!!11!1!!

Unlesssssss, they make a kind of elseworlds version of the character, like how they made justice league gods and monsters, where batman is Dr. Kirk Langstromand a vampire, superman is Hernan Guerra, and in that timeline harley is a full on psychopath who uses the corpses of dead people for her puppet show.

Quote from: Hydra009 on May 09, 2017, 07:28:27 PM
There are ways to read them now.  *winks with both eyes*

I have some computer disks of years of FF, Spiderman, and Avengers.  is that what you mean?

Quote from: Cavebear on April 21, 2017, 05:16:01 AM
I wish I had every "comic" book Marvel every produced...

An unabridged Marvel library...pardon me while I wipe up the wad I just shot, thinking about it...

Marvel seems to be on a roll.  At times I wonder why.  A lot of people wouldn't miss a Marvel movie.  I could name some of the reasons I think they are so popular, but why wasn't someone in Hollywood doing this before?  It's odd that the new kid on the block should dominate the movie theaters and Box Office revenues.

Great actors?  No, these guys have been around for a long time.
Great special effects?  No, those have been around for years.
Better story telling?  They do seem to have something here that isn't as readily available in Hollywood, IMO

But there must be more.  Basically, they are just making movies.  Why are they so good at it at a time when Movie gurus like Speilberg, and another guy... John Cameron???...  have been predicting the end of the movie industry?

Eh, I think a lot of the reason is the special effects.  Doctor Strange probably wouldn't look nearly as good if it came out in 2004.

Another part of the reason is that superhero movies have slowly but steadily garnered public interest.  After a lot of successes and failures, the genre has finally taken off.  And because of this surging popularity, superhero films are finally able to command huge budgets, which tend to be better received, making the genre even more popular.  It's a feedback loop.

Marvel in particular has also been putting maximum effort into their movies, trying very hard to make sure as few of their movies as possible flop.  You can tell that they care about their movies, and they've had remarkable success in getting people to love characters they had previously never even heard of.

And the final reason could be that current real-world problems lend themselves to superheroic escapism.  The early 2000s really did a number on the national psyche.  Chaos, terrorism, war, etc.  And the people in charge never really seem to have a handle on the situation.  People love a hero, especially during dark times.  Also, superhero movies contain themes of compassion, justice, freedom, and equality that really resonate with people, now maybe more than ever.  After all, the X-Men movies happened to hit at the same time gay rights was a huge issue in the US.  Very interesting timing for a franchise that arguably has a lot of parallels with the gay rights movement.

Bottom line, it's a lot of factors all lining up to create a perfect storm of superheroism.

Hydra,
Well said.  I've always loved superheroes, even if I wasn't an expert on all of them.  Marvel just tapped into an interest that was probably always out there, but they didn't just make more superhero movies.  They took it to the next level and added excellence to the formula, with the best directors, scripts, graphics, and actors, and they put the effort in to carry it beyond the somewhat stale Hollywood formulas.  Yeah, it takes some money to do that.  They've done it well.

One thing I considered for the earlier post but didn't write down till now (it sounds kinda out there and I'm kinda skeptical of this claim myself):

People have had flagging confidence in their social and political institutions for a while now.  Political leaders, military, police, church leaders, celebrities, etc.  Rallying behind fictional superheroes might be a way for people to signal a commitment to virtuous societal values without tying themselves to disappointing real-world institutions and people.

Quote from: Hydra009 on May 17, 2017, 04:58:16 PM
One thing I considered for the earlier post but didn't write down till now (it sounds kinda out there and I'm kinda skeptical of this claim myself):

People have had flagging confidence in their social and political institutions for a while now.  Political leaders, military, police, church leaders, celebrities, etc.  Rallying behind fictional superheroes might be a way for people to signal a commitment to virtuous societal values without tying themselves to disappointing real-world institutions and people.

could say that about any fictional character really. We escape into fantasy and its characters just for the reason, because we can feel more protected from the scorn in real life that fictional characters can overcome stuff in their stories.

Quote from: Hydra009 on May 17, 2017, 04:58:16 PM
People have had flagging confidence in their social and political institutions for a while now.  Political leaders, military, police, church leaders, celebrities, etc.  Rallying behind fictional superheroes might be a way for people to signal a commitment to virtuous societal values without tying themselves to disappointing real-world institutions and people.

Like Munch, I wouldn't be too skeptical about that.  It's part of the appeal.

And speaking of superheroes, I see a new one shows up next month.

QuoteCaptain Underpants: The First Epic Movie

Based on the worldwide sensation and bestselling book series, and boasting an A-list cast of comedy superstars headed by Kevin Hart and Ed Helms, DreamWorks Animation brings audiences the long-awaited global movie event, Captain Underpants: The First Epic Movie. This raucously subversive comedy for the entire family tells the story of two overly imaginative pranksters named George and Harold, who hypnotize their principal into thinking he"s a ridiculously enthusiastic, incredibly dimwitted superhero named Captain Underpants.

Run Time: 90 Minutes
Genre: Animation
Opening Date: Friday, 02 June 2017

Quote from: SGOS on May 17, 2017, 09:49:30 PMLike Munch, I wouldn't be too skeptical about that.  It's part of the appeal.

Yeah, it's just that I might be reading too much into it.  For all I know, the superhero fan that I'm ascribing all this complex stuff to might just want to see some nazi get punched in the face.

I go back in comics too far.  Started buying them in 1963.  Even at age 13, Marvel was much better than DC.  Marvel was for college students and DC was for high-schoolers.  Marvel had characters with problems, DC had aliases.  Marvel had angst.

The biggest difference was that Marvel had real people hiding their superhero peronas, and DC had superheroes trying to pretend they were real people.

Quote from: Hydra009 on May 17, 2017, 01:05:13 PM
Eh, I think a lot of the reason is the special effects.  Doctor Strange probably wouldn't look nearly as good if it came out in 2004.

Another part of the reason is that superhero movies have slowly but steadily garnered public interest.  After a lot of successes and failures, the genre has finally taken off.  And because of this surging popularity, superhero films are finally able to command huge budgets, which tend to be better received, making the genre even more popular.  It's a feedback loop.

Marvel in particular has also been putting maximum effort into their movies, trying very hard to make sure as few of their movies as possible flop.  You can tell that they care about their movies, and they've had remarkable success in getting people to love characters they had previously never even heard of.

And the final reason could be that current real-world problems lend themselves to superheroic escapism.  The early 2000s really did a number on the national psyche.  Chaos, terrorism, war, etc.  And the people in charge never really seem to have a handle on the situation.  People love a hero, especially during dark times.  Also, superhero movies contain themes of compassion, justice, freedom, and equality that really resonate with people, now maybe more than ever.  After all, the X-Men movies happened to hit at the same time gay rights was a huge issue in the US.  Very interesting timing for a franchise that arguably has a lot of parallels with the gay rights movement.

Bottom line, it's a lot of factors all lining up to create a perfect storm of superheroism.

We saw this in the late 1930s, but the drawing was better then ;-)

Quote from: SGOS on May 17, 2017, 10:04:24 PM
And speaking of superheroes, I see a new one shows up next month.

My best friend's superhero.  I just can't get on-board that.

Quote from: Hydra009 on May 17, 2017, 10:32:33 PM
Yeah, it's just that I might be reading too much into it.  For all I know, the superhero fan that I'm ascribing all this complex stuff to might just want to see some nazi get punched in the face.

Go Captain America!  Except he is a mind controlled agent of Red Skull ... modernity had to ruin it.

Quote from: Hydra009 on May 17, 2017, 10:32:33 PM
Yeah, it's just that I might be reading too much into it.  For all I know, the superhero fan that I'm ascribing all this complex stuff to might just want to see some nazi get punched in the face.

OK, the appeal is complex, since we are dealing with human emotion, but for me, I like the fantasy where there is a dependable force of good out there, and Marvel plays to that.  The comics play on the government/superhero divide too.  I think DC more so, where the government officials are often portrayed as idiots with an obsessive need to control or regulate the heroes, even though the heroes surpass them in every area of strength, morality, and sense of fairness, while acting without paybacks and bribes. 

Speaking of punching nazis and marvel, we can't talk about that without talking about... this thing..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P01Mt_JFmM&t=1201s

There is right now a current generation of people who are so far left leaning, they would look at whats going on in this comic as the ultimate form of progression and their version of reality how they want it to be.

I've been a liberal person for years now, and something I was saying to a friend of mine in sweden the other day, that I feel i'm in such a strange position these days, when i see some of the insanity the far left are producing, its like having spent years on one side of the spectrum, yet I stopped walking left while these others kept going, and going, until they fell off a cliff still yelling their notions of progression to the point of being totalitarian with it.

Its sad because when you see this degree of insane social justice, it starts making some of the things the right say make more sense. Thats why I find myself in such a strange standing right now.

This comic is ridiculous levels of virtue signalling social justice agenda, its like everything that's happening in marvel right now clustered into one comic, from white skinned conservatives robots 'america' battles and beats up, to her stepping in the way of captain america taking his iconic moment away to punch hitler in the face herself. Its a level of cringe I just can't stomach.

(http://i65.tinypic.com/5v7kgi.jpg)

Also, the argument that 'this is what modern comic book readers want' is so fucking wrong is hilarious. No this is what modern social justice readers, who hardly even read comics want marvel to be. Everyone else who just wants comics to escape from the bullshit of the real world into are screwed by this current wave of sjw pandering. This is why more people are moving over to DC comics because they remember what made their comics actual comics.

Just saying Marvel has broad appeal.  People can interpret the art and enjoy the parts that strike their fancy in whatever way they perceive them.  Punching Hitler in the face might be a fantasy, but still fun, just for the heck of it.  Here's this little guy screeching from a podium while waving his arms around in a rant.  You walk right up to him and punch him in the face, and he falls on his ass wondering what just happened.  What's not fun about that?

I'm all for creating abstract political fantasy, like captain america punching hitler in the face, or that scene in inglorious bastards where they burn down the cinema full of nazis and the other two fire off machine guns into hitler even after he's dead. I just have a problem with taking those already established stories, and force hammering political views in for not other reason besides pushing your own political agenda.
Like, if deadpool were to step in place of captain america, hand hitler a bomb, kiss him and run off before it blow up, thats deadpool just being deadpool, and done for comedy or parody. But this current thing with 'america' isn't done for laughs or parody, its done to push an agenda that, by forcing the views of the writer so much it needs to step on already established moments that were badass before. Did we need someone else stepping in place of captain america punching hitler to make it meaningful? No, because it had its meaning, america saying 'we're not taking your shit hitler', it didn't need a latino woman in american garb stepping in doing the same thing, or even overwriting it, because that just makes whatever she's doing look petty, moment stealing.

I understand, I think.  I'm wondering if you are seeing something in it that isn't intended, or if it's something that I don't see through my American colored glasses?  I think writers are granted a certain amount of license, however, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. 

Incidentally, just so you know I can be pretty forgiving of movies, I have all three parts of the last Atlas Shrugged movie (probably produced by some right wing outfit without great acting or direction, but it kind of follows the book).  I think Ayn Rand is a control freak with a bad case of tunnel vision, and I don't even think she is a good writer, but I still like the story.  I read the book years ago, and was delighted by the little self supporting community of drop outs hidden in Colorado, like some hippy commune.  Hell, it's just fiction.  I know she had an agenda.  The story is shallow, not really worthy of a decent writer, but it's kind of fun in a childlike way.

And just a word about inglorious bastards.  I don't think I've ever had that much fun in a movie theater than that.  I was so taken by that film, with the introduction of a previously unknown Austrian actor who played the SS commander better than any I have ever seen.  I was on the edge of my seat delighting at the antics throughout, thinking this guy should get an Academy Award, which in fact he later did, and for that role.  I never batted an eye when Quentin Tarintino wiped out Hitler and the entire Nazi high command in one fell swoop.

But I left the theater with something upsetting just niggling at the back of my brain, which took me a few minutes to sort out.  I finally, thought, "Hey wait!  Hitler shot himself in a bunker with just a couple of confidents to witness his final act of madness.  You can't do that to history in a film."  And then it came to me that it was just Tarintino doing his off the wall stuff for entertainment, and then I felt OK.

first time I saw inglorious bastards was when round my brothers house, my nephew was only a few weeks old, in a cradle on the floor, and he had the movie on with the kid right there in front of it, dozing away. Does make me wonder about sending subliminal messages into the mind of an infant, but we're have to wait and see.

Quote from: Munch on May 18, 2017, 09:50:00 AM
I'm all for creating abstract political fantasy, like captain america punching hitler in the face, or that scene in inglorious bastards where they burn down the cinema full of nazis and the other two fire off machine guns into hitler even after he's dead. I just have a problem with taking those already established stories, and force hammering political views in for not other reason besides pushing your own political agenda.
Like, if deadpool were to step in place of captain america, hand hitler a bomb, kiss him and run off before it blow up, thats deadpool just being deadpool, and done for comedy or parody. But this current thing with 'america' isn't done for laughs or parody, its done to push an agenda that, by forcing the views of the writer so much it needs to step on already established moments that were badass before. Did we need someone else stepping in place of captain america punching hitler to make it meaningful? No, because it had its meaning, america saying 'we're not taking your shit hitler', it didn't need a latino woman in american garb stepping in doing the same thing, or even overwriting it, because that just makes whatever she's doing look petty, moment stealing.

She should definitely been in a Mexican flag outfit.  Aye, carumba!  Next she should say to Capt America ... you next, gringo!

Quote from: SGOS on May 18, 2017, 11:31:51 AM
I understand, I think.  I'm wondering if you are seeing something in it that isn't intended, or if it's something that I don't see through my American colored glasses?  I think writers are granted a certain amount of license, however, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. 

Incidentally, just so you know I can be pretty forgiving of movies, I have all three parts of the last Atlas Shrugged movie (probably produced by some right wing outfit without great acting or direction, but it kind of follows the book).  I think Ayn Rand is a control freak with a bad case of tunnel vision, and I don't even think she is a good writer, but I still like the story.  I read the book years ago, and was delighted by the little self supporting community of drop outs hidden in Colorado, like some hippy commune.  Hell, it's just fiction.  I know she had an agenda.  The story is shallow, not really worthy of a decent writer, but it's kind of fun in a childlike way.

Old Ayn Rand fan here ... back in the day.  Did you ever see the movie version of her earlier novel, The Fountainhead?  1949 with Gary Cooper.

Quote from: Baruch on May 18, 2017, 03:35:41 PM
Old Ayn Rand fan here ... back in the day.  Did you ever see the movie version of her earlier novel, The Fountainhead?  1949 with Gary Cooper.

No, I never read the book either.

Quote from: Munch on May 18, 2017, 02:20:02 PM
first time I saw inglorious bastards was when round my brothers house, my nephew was only a few weeks old, in a cradle on the floor, and he had the movie on with the kid right there in front of it, dozing away. Does make me wonder about sending subliminal messages into the mind of an infant, but we're have to wait and see.

You probably won't be able to tell until he's about 20.

Quote from: SGOS on May 18, 2017, 04:21:33 PM
You probably won't be able to tell until he's about 20.

Well today, after getting a fidgit cube as a present from his grandma, he threw a tantrum, threw it at the TV and broke the screen. So looks like he's well on his way

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on May 17, 2017, 04:38:12 AM
An unabridged Marvel library...pardon me while I wipe up the wad I just shot, thinking about it...

Seems like it wouldn't be hard. I've done 200 gigabytes of WWII document, all scanned first.

Quote from: SGOS on May 18, 2017, 06:48:54 AMOK, the appeal is complex, since we are dealing with human emotion, but for me, I like the fantasy where there is a dependable force of good out there, and Marvel plays to that.

True.  But I really like the stories where there's a little bit of a gray area, like in Armor Wars.  The Iron Man design has been stolen and sold to all comers.  Tony Stark is understandably upset since he considers himself complicit in any atrocities committed with his technology, and vows to eliminate any Iron Man-derived technology.

This becomes a bit problematic since not everyone using his technology is villainous, but Iron Man strips it from them anyway.  Some people say he went off the deep end, some people say his actions were justified - that he had to go to extraordinary lengths to protect the world from the reckless dissemination lethal technology, and really cynical people say he's an ill-tempered child too selfish to share his toys.

There are plenty of other examples of times when heroes aren't all on the same page.  Both sides usually have good reasons and good intentions.  But not everyone agrees on the right course of action and sometimes there just isn't a clear-cut right and wrong.

Once, War Machine decided to take on some North African warlord.  Morally, he's totally in the right.  Legally, not so much.  An American citizen can't just go into another sovereign country with guns blazing without getting the go ahead from the Pentagon.  That's unlawful and arguably reckless as hell.

That'd be like me climbing into a mech and going Rambo on Kim Jong-un.  If I could pull it off, it'd probably be a good thing in the long term.  But it'd be one hell of an international incident and could also have some serious negative repercussions, especially with civilians in the crossfire.  Things just aren't as simple as the good guy clobbering the bad guy.

QuoteThe comics play on the government/superhero divide too.  I think DC more so, where the government officials are often portrayed as idiots with an obsessive need to control or regulate the heroes, even though the heroes surpass them in every area of strength, morality, and sense of fairness, while acting without paybacks and bribes.

Eh..I dunno about surpassing them in every area.

Even the best of them wreck Times Square so badly that I'm surprised anyone bothers to rebuild it.  (They may save the world in the process, but I doubt the public is always aware of the situation - all they know is the capes are throwing punches and that's why half of daddy's paycheck goes straight to home/car insurance)

Plus, plenty of heroes have oopsie daisies that end up on the nightly news.

And then there are "heroes" with extremely high body counts like the Punisher and Venom.  Anyone can call themselves a hero, but that doesn't necessarily mean they act like it.  And the public might have a hard time distinguishing who's good and who's not in a lot of situations.  They might mistakenly call the good guy a menace (Spider-Man) or be duped into thinking that the bad guy is a hero (Norman Osborn during Dark Reign)

An interesting look back to the early 2000s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6kgaLOMuhI

To me, this comic here made me a fan of the avengers, without even really knowing why back then, but it was more the integrity of captain america, bringing up the reality of the fact, why do they need black members on the avengers team at that moment, for no other reason but a publicity stunt.
This was still in a time when comic books didn't concern themselves with the rabble rousing that goes on in public protests and universities and outside government offices, they are just heroes trying to keep the world a peaceful as possible. And I loved the idea of that.

Even when with the x-men, when it was about the human and mutant relations and how the public reacted to them, it was something that was familiar, but ultimately its own thing in the marvel universe. It allowed it to be its own entity, without it being a direct reflection of current social events happening in the real world. Because of that, it actually made some of the x-men stories timeless, because unlike things like gay, black or latino rights, mutants and whats happening around them could always be brought up as a social and political problem based on it being people with powers.

I'm sorry, the idea of "the early 2000s" cracked me up.  I understand your message, but I'm 67.  The "early 2000s" were yesterday.   Please forgive me the laughter...

I understand what you are saying (I hope) and race and ethnicity changing in comics over time.  I welcome it.  I remember when the Black Falcon simply became the Falcon.  Same with the Black Panther, I suppose.  But I also remember when Mantis (asian) showed up in the 70s. Colossus (russian), etc.  I liked that.  I think the addition of world-wide superheroes is long overdue and welcome.

On the other hand, I don't like it when they change race of ethnicity of long-established characters.  I used to read 'Nick Fury and the Howling Commandos'.  Fury was a white Bronx (?) guy.  Damn the sterotypes, full speed ahead.  ;)  And then later head of SHIELD.  I still can't get used to seeing him as a black guy (and outstandingly portrayed in the movies BTW).  It just doesn't backtrack logically.

Let's just say I'm in favor of leaving those heroes I remember as they were and making new ones.  OK, yeah most of them were white guys and I'm painting myself into a corner.  I'll wait for the paint to dry.

Let there be new heroes in IDIC.  May you have peace, and prosper.

I'll probably regret this post...

Quote from: Cavebear on May 31, 2017, 01:41:34 PM
I'm sorry, the idea of "the early 2000s" cracked me up.  I understand your message, but I'm 67.  The "early 2000s" were yesterday.   Please forgive me the laughter...

I understand what you are saying (I hope) and race and ethnicity changing in comics over time.  I welcome it.  I remember when the Black Falcon simply became the Falcon.  Same with the Black Panther, I suppose.  But I also remember when Mantis (asian) showed up in the 70s. Colossus (russian), etc.  I liked that.  I think the addition of world-wide superheroes is long overdue and welcome.

On the other hand, I don't like it when they change race of ethnicity of long-established characters.  I used to read 'Nick Fury and the Howling Commandos'.  Fury was a white Bronx (?) guy.  Damn the sterotypes, full speed ahead.  ;)  And then later head of SHIELD.  I still can't get used to seeing him as a black guy (and outstandingly portrayed in the movies BTW).  It just doesn't backtrack logically.

Let's just say I'm in favor of leaving those heroes I remember as they were and making new ones.  OK, yeah most of them were white guys and I'm painting myself into a corner.  I'll wait for the paint to dry.

Let there be new heroes in IDIC.  May you have peace, and prosper.

I'll probably regret this post...

When I dig into my older comics, I find myself more and more often reading them with my "well, it was a different time" filters on, same as when reading ERB or Lovecraft.  And if you ever read any Golden Age titles, particularly during WWII... yike.  Comics were and are a reflection of their times, so it's no surprise that older characters -- especially those created in the early 1960s and before -- by and large reflect white, middle class, nominally-christian America.

And of course, with the longevity of some of the characters, periodic reboots become necessary -- otherwise by now, Spiderman would be in his 70s or 80s, and Superman and Batman would be centenarians, give or take a couple years.  I don't really have much of a problem if they want to juggle ethnicities at those times -- a reboot lets them modernize and streamline a universe that reflected a different reality when it was set up.  Fifteen, twenty years from now, they'll have to do it again anyway when the titles reflect today instead of twenty years from today.

Quote from: Cavebear on May 31, 2017, 01:41:34 PM

I'll probably regret this post...

I don't get why? Whats wrong with having a long standing love of characters just because their white? America is a primarily white nation now with spatterings of other nationalities in it, so having a company like marvel having a majority of white super heroes is no more unusual then having anime companies having asian people are the majority of characters in their movies and comics.

Its this whole horseshit of trying to remove characters and replace them 'caz dey is white', which is just as fucking racist. Also its just as fucking sexist to push out male characters and replace them with female, because if the reverse happened and we had male storm or male black widow, you know people be exploding on tumblr over that.

I wonder what caused the switch in mindset in Marvel. They had it right before. Who cares about the skin color under the suit? I'm all for representation, but changing preestablished characters just for the sake of having more minorities in the cast is not the way to do it. I mean, seriously. Are they so lacking in new ideas that they only way they know how to make a new minority character is to genderbend Thor or give Spider-man a new coat of paint? I remember when I was a kid, I had an idea for a superhero themed book, and I wrote a list of twenty-something characters for it. It's not that difficult to be original, and these guys are paid to this...

Quote from: Blackleaf on June 01, 2017, 11:04:32 AM
I wonder what caused the switch in mindset in Marvel. They had it right before. Who cares about the skin color under the suit? I'm all for representation, but changing preestablished characters just for the sake of having more minorities in the cast is not the way to do it. I mean, seriously. Are they so lacking in new ideas that they only way they know how to make a new minority character is to genderbend Thor or give Spider-man a new coat of paint? I remember when I was a kid, I had an idea for a superhero themed book, and I wrote a list of twenty-something characters for it. It's not that difficult to be original, and these guys are paid to this...

funny enough I did the same thing in my teens, thought up my own heroes and villains, and they were all sorts of creeds, genders and races, some of them even heroic demons. Gender and race equality for the sake of having it is as stereotyped as having the black guy in a horror movie clique, and we know what happens with him.

Quote from: Baruch on May 18, 2017, 03:35:41 PM
Old Ayn Rand fan here ... back in the day.  Did you ever see the movie version of her earlier novel, The Fountainhead?  1949 with Gary Cooper.

Just saw this for some reason.  Old Ayn Rand fan, as well.  Loved Atlas Shrugged and Anthem.  Fountainhead, not so much.  The movie was not all that good, either. 

Quote from: Munch on June 01, 2017, 11:42:31 AM
funny enough I did the same thing in my teens, thought up my own heroes and villains, and they were all sorts of creeds, genders and races, some of them even heroic demons. Gender and race equality for the sake of having it is as stereotyped as having the black guy in a horror movie clique, and we know what happens with him.

My own rule when creating new characters for my writing is that unless there is a particular reason one is going to be white and/or male, I first figure out where they're from and then select randomly from the known demographics of that area -- fortunately, I still have my percentile dice from way long ago when I was a gamer.  A little randomness helps keep matters balanced.

Quote from: trdsf on May 31, 2017, 03:25:10 PM
And of course, with the longevity of some of the characters, periodic reboots become necessary -- otherwise by now, Spiderman would be in his 70s or 80s, and Superman and Batman would be centenarians, give or take a couple years. 

Oh that's easy.  Superheroes (and all their friends for some obscure reason) age slowly.  They emit anti-age particles too.  ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCF24UUT2KM

the social justice turn marvel has taken, has now gotten so bad comic book shops showing how people just aren't buying marvel comics, that their moving to not doing business with marvel.

there are of course other contributing factors, like the fact they keep restarting series to no:1s. But that just goes in line with the awful writing, the fact the heads of marvel now hate their own fanbase, and just want to force their own narrative into the comics, ignoring what people actually want to see.

It does go hand in hand of course, The reason why they keep restarting books is because they aren't selling, and the reason their not selling is because the writing and characters are crap. When their own sales figures are worse then just after the comic book crash in the early 90s, its a serious wakeup call to the investors to tell the heads of marvel stop with this bullshit, give the fans what they actually want, and stop forcing this bullshit social justice narrative.

I do wonder honestly if the reason the writing it so awful isn't all on purpose because the writers are forced into a corner by the heads, and they have no choice but to go along, so they just put no energy into it and produce crap purposely.

Sorry, SJW is all part of the CIA/MI6/Soros Axis.  You must conform or be liquidated, comrade.

Quote from: Baruch on July 01, 2017, 09:38:39 AM
Sorry, SJW is all part of the CIA/MI6/Soros Axis.  You must conform or be liquidated, comrade.

I only wish it were so black and white, excuse the pun.

Quote from: Munch on July 01, 2017, 10:16:43 AM
I only wish it were so black and white, excuse the pun.

The various security services and progressive/regressive ideologues have been LARPing pre-James Bond and pre-MLK since 1900.  It is not black/white ... but like the Tao sign, white with a black heart vs black with a white heart.

So, let the existing characters retire or be killed off.  Let SHIELD be newly run by an asian or latina.  Let Tony Stark die and be replaced by the black guy who as been close to him.  Let Mantis become a major character.  Let new characters come forth unemcumbered by the past.  Let Dr Strange teach a black lesbian his knowledge. He learned it from an old asian guy, let it happan again.

I'm just saying don't mess with the existing origins; have the courage to make new ones.

PS, Love "Hancock"!

Quote from: Cavebear on July 03, 2017, 05:28:25 AM
So, let the existing characters retire or be killed off.  Let SHIELD be newly run by an asian or latina.  Let Tony Stark die and be replaced by the black guy who as been close to him.  Let Mantis become a major character.  Let new characters come forth unemcumbered by the past.  Let Dr Strange teach a black lesbian his knowledge. He learned it from an old asian guy, let it happan again.

I'm just saying don't mess with the existing origins; have the courage to make new ones.

PS, Love "Hancock"!

I just think that copy/pasting characters and changing them to represent some minority group is lazy. They should use new ideas, not just replace all the straight, white, male characters. If the best they can come up with is "what if Thor was a woman," then maybe Marvel comics should go out of business.

"Stan Lee's wife Joan Lee dead at 93 after 'being hospitalised following a stroke'"

http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/stan-lees-wife-joan-lee-10752047

QuoteJoan Lee, wife of Marvel Comics icon Stan Lee, has died aged 93.

Joan passed away in Los Angeles on Thursday. She had reportedly been hospitalised after suffering a stroke earlier this week.

"I can confirm the sad news that Joan Lee passed away this morning quietly and surrounded by her family," a spokesperson for the family said in a statement to Variety.

"The family ask that you please give them time to grieve and respect their privacy during this difficult time."

Joan, a former British hat model, married Stan on December 5, 1947. The two, who were married for 69 years, met when Stan was supposed to take her friend on a blind date.

Together, they had two children: Joan Celia (J.C.) and Jan, who died three days after her birth.

Before meeting Stan, Joan impulsively married an American soldier during World War II, in what turned out to be an unhappy relationship.

After a six-week stay in Reno, Nevada, a judge granted her divorce, and he married her and Stan in a room next door.

The newlyweds returned to New York, where Stan Lee worked for Timely/Atlas Comics, now known as Marvel Comics.

Stan co-created the Fantastic Four with Jack Kirby in 1961, with Stan citing Joan as inspiration for the then-burgeoning project.

They moved to California in 1981 so Stan could develop Marvel TV and film works. Joan did voice work on Fantastic Four as Miss Forbes and Spider-Man as Madame Web in the 1990's animated Marvel shows.

She also had a role in 2016's X-Men: Apocalypse.

Joan Lee authored a novel, The Pleasure Palace, in 1987 about a man's mission to create the world's most luxurious ocean liner who simultaneously balances three romances.

aww, poor Stan :(, they'd been together so long.

I hadn't really followed much of what she did, but when I learned that she played the role of madam web from spiderman the animated series, knowing she was stan lees wife, that character always stuck with me after.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clKXFLDVTVQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7EsS0WIFoU

Quote from: Cavebear on July 03, 2017, 05:28:25 AMLet Tony Stark die and be replaced by the black guy who as been close to him.

*triggered*

Marvel did the exact opposite of that.  It was...unpleasant...to say the least.

I can maybe - and I stress maybe - see Tony passing the torch to the new generation (something like Batman Beyond).  But it'd have to be one hell of a character for that change to stick for more than a couple months.

QuoteLet Mantis become a major character.

Now that I could go for.

QuoteI'm just saying don't mess with the existing origins; have the courage to make new ones.

They've done a little bit of this.  There's Silk (Asian Spider-Man expy), White Tiger (Hispanic off-brand Black Panther).  Probably others.  They're not wholly unique, but they don't displace existing characters.

Also, there are plenty of characters who were originally non-white that could easily be returned and revamped.  Portal is Native American (Darkhawk frienemy, mutant who opens portals at will and has stockpiled an impressive array of alien gadgets)

Sounds good to me...

Well, looks like he's back.

(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/OTCjRlSEoAoeo0VVJcLDqRrP7yM=/0x0:944x615/920x613/filters:focal(397x233:547x383):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/56914195/Screen_Shot_2017_09_28_at_11.43.14_AM.0.png)
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/zyqWHh059gZUVob2CEQ6Hk6WjQU=/1000x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9346993/Screen_Shot_2017_09_28_at_11.42.54_AM.png)

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/9/30/16379010/marvel-wolverine-return

Quote3 years ago, Marvel killed Wolverine. He just came back from the dead.

Wolverine is now the star of Marvel’s next big comic book event.

In 2014, Marvel did the unthinkable: It killed off Wolverine, a massively popular X-Man whose superhuman healing power should have, by all means, prevented him from dying. Wolverine’s death was a huge event, one of the rare moments where what happens in a comic book becomes mainstream pop culture news.

But now, three years later, the adamantium-enhanced mutant is back.

Marvel brought back Wolverine, a.k.a. Logan, in Marvel Legacy No. 1 this week, kicking off the next giant event in the comic book publisher’s schedule. In typical Wolverine fashion, the moment was brutal, violent, and commemorated with a murder. And in typical Marvel fashion, it wasn’t the issue’s only twist.


How Marvel killed Wolverine â€" and then brought him back from the dead
Because of how Wolverine has been showcased in movies (Hugh Jackman has made a nice career out of playing the character) and marketed as the face of the X-Men in comic books, video games, and the beloved ’90s animated TV series, the superhero has become a mainstream pop icon. He has a couple of signature features: his scruffy, shaggy hair; his adamantium claws and adamantium-laced skeleton; and his ability to heal, extremely rapidly, from just about anything. In regards to the latter, the X-Men movies have repeatedly used Wolverine’s healing power as both a gag and a storytelling device, like in X-Men: Days of Future Past when Wolverine was the member of the X-Men who was selected to go back to the past because the power would help him withstand the trauma of time travel.

So when Marvel announced that it was killing Wolverine in 2014, it set off comic book sirens. The company was killing a character who was previously thought to be unkillable, not to mention one of the most popular characters it had ever created.

The moment came to pass in the aptly named comic book miniseries The Death of Wolverine, which saw the title character’s healing ability go kaput, leaving him as vulnerable to death as the rest of the characters in the Marvel universe. It ended with the hero dying, encased in a shell of adamantium.

But in Marvel Legacy No. 1, which was released this week, Wolverine and his trademark “snikt” (the sound his claws make) crash into the story out of nowhere. He sideswipes a Frost Giant with a truck, appearing to murder said giant and collect an Infinity Stone:

The initial reveal is a shock, and it isn’t even confirmed until later in the issue that the shaggy, clawed figure is the real Wolverine and not some sort of impostor, clone, or lookalike.

We don’t know how Wolverine found the Frost Giant, who was sent by Loki, or what he intends with the Infinity Stone he now has. We also don’t really know which Infinity Stone it is (blue is traditionally the color of the “mind” stone, but the lore around the stones changed during last year’s Secret Wars crossover). It sets up a giant mystery, which no doubt will unfold little by little as Marvel’s Legacy event continues.

Wolverine’s death and his return are good stories. But they’re even better for comic sales.
The simple reason comic book characters die and are brought back to life is that comic book companies are in the business of selling comic books. Major plot events â€" wars, death, resurrections â€" drive sales.

When Wolverine met his demise, the first and second issues of The Death of Wolverine were the top-selling comic book issues of September 2014. And while we don’t have the exact sales figures from Marvel Legacy No. 1 yet, judging by hugely successful character resurrections like Peter Parker’s in 2012, it seems that Wolverine’s return and this kickoff issue for Legacy will be another top seller for Marvel.

Eliminating a beloved major character might seem like it would hurt a comic’s sales after the character’s death. The thought being that if you get rid of a fan favorite, people might stop reading ongoing stories that no longer feature the character. But Marvel has figured out a way around that dilemma.

While Wolverine has been presumed dead for the past three years, a couple different iterations of the character have lived on. One of those is Laura Kinney, a.k.a. X-23, a.k.a. the character portrayed as a Wolverine’s quasi-daughter/sidekick/clone in Fox’s critically acclaimed Wolverine movie Logan. Kinney has appeared in X-Men stories in Wolverine’s absence, as well as in her popular standalone comic All New Wolverine.

There’s also Old Man Logan, a version of Wolverine from an alternate future timeline who is, well, old. He carries with him the trauma of killing his team in that alternate future, but he’s part of the main Marvel X-Men timeline and has appeared in many different storylines. He’s currently a fixture in the X-Men: Gold comic.

By having these two characters function as Wolverine analogs and relying on their connections to the real, original Wolverine, Marvel almost cheated the character’s death a bit. While the actual Wolverine died, his spirit â€" the strange amalgam of vengeance, remorse, homicide, and humanity â€" was still around in the comics.

Now, with Legacy, Marvel will presumably bring Laura Kinney and Old Man Logan into the same story as the real Wolverine’s return. At this point, we only have the first issue to go on, so there aren’t a lot of details about how this might happen, but the story will reflect multiple generations of Marvel characters and has already promised the return of a few other familiar faces in addition to Wolverine â€" there’s another reveal at the end of the issue that I don’t want to spoil. (Additionally, Marvel has a Jean Grey resurrection comic in the works.)

But in order to keep up with the iconic character’s new adventures and find out whatever the hell he had to do to come back from the dead, fans will have to follow the Legacy event and buy the comics â€" music to Marvel’s ears.

On the one hand I'd be happy that the real wolverine, not old man logan or another alternative reality version, but the real wolverine we grew up with, is now back from the dead. But honestly, I don't trust marvel these days, and even this seems more an action to try and increase sales that have been tanking due to bad writers and stories.

We're have to see if this helps marvel recover from the hole they dug.

Quote from: Solomon Zorn on November 20, 2016, 12:20:49 PM
I stopped reading the comics, back about 1993, just before the comic-book bubble collapsed. I haven't seen anything that Marvel, or anybody else, has done lately to make me start up again, especially given how expensive the damn things are now.

I'm prepared for sticker shock.  The last comic book I bought was 10 cents.  I'm pretty sure that is correct.  I can't remember ever paying anything other then 10 cents.  So how much are they now?

Quote from: SGOS on September 30, 2017, 07:41:38 PM
I'm prepared for sticker shock.  The last comic book I bought was 10 cents.  I'm pretty sure that is correct.  I can't remember ever paying anything other then 10 cents.  So how much are they now?

I remember 10 cents, as well.  Then 12 cents.  I think the last time I bought one it was 25 cents.

Quote from: Mike Cl on September 30, 2017, 08:59:21 PM
I remember 10 cents, as well.  Then 12 cents.  I think the last time I bought one it was 25 cents.

Now I remember that some comics would put out an occasional issue (maybe an annual spectacular) that was so big, it had a square edged binding, similar in shape to a national geographic.  They had a content perhaps 3 or 4 times that of an ordinary comic book.  I do remember those being 25 cents, and I did buy a few, but the going rate for the monthly editions was still 10 cents.

Quote from: SGOS on September 30, 2017, 10:03:26 PM
Now I remember that some comics would put out an occasional issue (maybe an annual spectacular) that was so big, it had a square edged binding, similar in shape to a national geographic.  They had a content perhaps 3 or 4 times that of an ordinary comic book.  I do remember those being 25 cents, and I did buy a few, but the going rate for the monthly editions was still 10 cents.

I started buying Marvel comics in about 1961, the first time I had enough of an allowance to actually choose what to buy at 11.  I had FF#1.   I used all my allowance for subscriptions to Spiderman, Avengers, and FF.  I had enough to fill a steamer chest.  I stayed with Marvel through college.

Then I was on my own and broke.  I sold them to pay rent and buy food.  Life is like that.

When I had a little more money than I needed, they had got a lot more expensive,  I gave up.

Quote from: Munch on September 30, 2017, 10:28:55 AM
Well, looks like he's back.

On the one hand I'd be happy that the real wolverine, not old man logan or another alternative reality version, but the real wolverine we grew up with, is now back from the dead. But honestly, I don't trust marvel these days, and even this seems more an action to try and increase sales that have been tanking due to bad writers and stories.

We're have to see if this helps marvel recover from the hole they dug.

Well, really, the only characters in comics that stay dead are Peter Parker's Uncle Ben, and Bruce Wayne's parents.  Everyone else can be brought back any time they like.  How many times has Jean Gray been killed off?

Quote from: trdsf on October 09, 2017, 07:10:12 PM
Well, really, the only characters in comics that stay dead are Peter Parker's Uncle Ben, and Bruce Wayne's parents.  Everyone else can be brought back any time they like.  How many times has Jean Gray been killed off?

perhaps, but honestly while I should be excited at the idea that they brought the real wolverine, not alternative reality wolverine, gender swapped wolverine, robo wolverine, none of those but the real one we've read about for decades now, while I should be excited that he's back, I look at marvel comics three years ago how it was to now, and just the idea of his character being brought back in the state marvels in now just concerns me greatly how the modern marvel writers will use it.

Bearing in mind, wolverine/logan is one of my favorite marvel comics characters, or comic characters in general, infact I'd go as far to say one of my top five favorite fictional characters. But even with that, if they fuck up his character or stories with the modern marvel writing team thats been turning fans away in droves, him being brought back won't be enough to make me come back, they've got a lot to answer for lately.

I don't like it when dead characters are returned. 

Well, I lprefer Marvel characters seeing them for college grads and think DC characters are designed for high school students.  But I admired when Superman was returned by Braniac detecting very low levels of Superman's existence.  That was at least clever.  DC has upped their game over the years.