http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/10/living-planet-index-world-lose-two-thirds-animals-2020-conservation-science/
See ... doesn't matter who you vote for, global warming etc will cause ecological collapse, leading to extermination of humanity ... so no second term for Hillary or Trump.
well This should be fun.
says a conservative
I didn't draw the same conclusion you did from the article.
Quote from: SGOS on October 30, 2016, 08:04:28 AM
I didn't draw the same conclusion you did from the article.
I didn't draw a conclusion, I shared the question. The first comment on the article, rejected the article's conclusion, because the writer is Conservative. One can assume that the first commentor is Liberal (in the environmentalist way, not the Hillary way). It is ad hominem. I don't know if the article is reasonable or not, but hoped it would start opinions.
"Has global warming etc already gone too far, so that modern civilization is doomed, and how soon?" This could be resolved by scientific study, that may already be available (data matched to climate model indicates that it will be too hot for most animals to survive on the Earth's surface, and the model indicates this isn't 100 years in the future, but 4 years in the future. Conservatives like Ronald Reagan, will just say this is doom porn, and that Nancy's astrologer agrees ;-)
Two thirds of vertebrate species will be extinct, counted from 1970, according to this article.
These are mainly specialised and exotic animals though, you won't see rats on the list.
Quote from: Sal1981 on October 30, 2016, 09:11:55 AM
Two thirds of vertebrate species will be extinct, counted from 1970, according to this article.
These are mainly specialised and exotic animals though, you won't see rats on the list.
Good, then US voters will make it thru ;-)
Quote from: SGOS on October 30, 2016, 08:04:28 AM
I didn't draw the same conclusion you did from the article.
I didnt read it right, because I scammed through it.
And which political party is refusing to acknowledge global warming and pollution? The Repubs consider it sacrilege to consider that we mere mortals could actually influence a whole planet. But we are.
And then some Repubs turn it around and say only God can save us from what we have done, so we better start praying to HIM.
Wait, they were just saying we didn't have the power to wreck the planet.
Apparently, being a Repub (conservative nut) means the ability to hold entirely opposing views in one's mind without the least bit of bother.
I envy that.
"And they're coming to take me away ha-ha
To the Funny Farm, where life is beautiful ALL the time,
And I'll be HAPPY to see those nice young men
In their clean white coats,
And their coming to take we away Ha, Ha!"
What an odd universe conservative Repubs live in...
Keep in mind that NatGeo isn't a peer-reviewed journal.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 31, 2016, 05:52:11 AM
Keep in mind that NatGeo isn't a peer-reviewed journal.
But also keep in mind that it DOES have a long-standing reputation...
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 31, 2016, 05:52:11 AM
Keep in mind that NatGeo isn't a peer-reviewed journal.
Peer review journals are so 1950s. They were replaced long ago by Rush Limbaugh and his wannabes.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 31, 2016, 05:52:11 AM
Keep in mind that NatGeo isn't a peer-reviewed journal.
Wasn't NatGeo recently taken over by Rupert Murdoch? He did, about one year ago. I think that is part of the "attitude" of the first commenter on the article (on the original web site).
Quote from: SGOS on October 31, 2016, 06:23:07 AM
Peer review journals are so 1950s. They were replaced long ago by Rush Limbaugh and his wannabes.
Peer-reviewed journals still matter. But you have to have a professional or personally-expensive subscription to most of them. I don't. I have to depend on the magazines that report on the professional journals. I get Scientific American, National Geographic, and Smithsonian.
i guess I better learn how to can my veggies then......gonna need a lot of them....and rope to tie me to a tree in case gravity goes away....
Quote from: aitm on October 31, 2016, 09:35:02 AM
i guess I better learn how to can my veggies then......gonna need a lot of them....and rope to tie me to a tree in case gravity goes away....
No, get connected with a decent small farm and a warm spot by the fire and you'll be fine. ;)
Quote from: Cavebear on October 31, 2016, 06:30:42 AM
Peer-reviewed journals still matter. But you have to have a professional or personally-expensive subscription to most of them. I don't. I have to depend on the magazines that report on the professional journals. I get Scientific American, National Geographic, and Smithsonian.
I like them too, but I keep in mind that they're not required to have robust evidence for their claims.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 31, 2016, 11:53:02 AM
I like them too, but I keep in mind that they're not required to have robust evidence for their claims.
They are only reporting on peer-reviewed claims...
Quote from: Cavebear on October 31, 2016, 12:01:49 PM
They are only reporting on peer-reviewed claims...
Second-hand source, yes.
Quote from: aitm on October 31, 2016, 09:35:02 AM
i guess I better learn how to can my veggies then......gonna need a lot of them....and rope to tie me to a tree in case gravity goes away....
The opposite of gravity is levity. And your post was very funny ;-)
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 31, 2016, 12:20:50 PM
Second-hand source, yes.
So, when you read some physics, you go back and read Newton's Principia in the original Latin?
Quote from: Baruch on October 31, 2016, 12:25:18 PM
So, when you read some physics, you go back and read Newton's Principia in the original Latin?
The Rule of So says "When a reply starts with 'So...' it should be inspected carefully for strawman arguments."
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 31, 2016, 12:32:02 PM
The Rule of So says "When a reply starts with 'So...' it should be inspected carefully for strawman arguments."
Why all the hate for Scarecrow ... are you a flying monkey?
Quote from: Baruch on October 31, 2016, 07:18:50 PM
Why all the hate for Scarecrow ... are you a flying monkey?
"I got that reference!" Captain America.
If Trump wins, we're doomed even earlier.
I don't know about 2020 but I do know that homo sapiens is the only animal capable of reproducing itself into extinction. We are the only animal that can live in almost any habitat.
All other animals have some sort of balance that limits their numbers. Prey animals reproduce until the food supply is exhausted or predators thin them out, predators multiply only as prey is abundant. Each keeps the other in balance.
It is another matter with homo sapiens. As omnivores we can produce plenty of plant food, that is until our population out numbers our ability to find enough land to cultivate. We do not need animal protein. Predators are non-existent for us (except in rare cases which do not inhibit our growth).
Eventually we will over populate the earth. Meanwhile in search of food we will build buildings at an ever increasing rate until all agricultural land is built over. Then where will the food come from?
Quote from: Atheon on October 31, 2016, 08:56:07 PM
If Trump wins, we're doomed even earlier.
In which case, I want to get this shit show on the road already.
Quote from: Ro3bert on October 31, 2016, 09:33:15 PM
I don't know about 2020 but I do know that homo sapiens is the only animal capable of reproducing itself into extinction. We are the only animal that can live in almost any habitat.
All other animals have some sort of balance that limits their numbers. Prey animals reproduce until the food supply is exhausted or predators thin them out, predators multiply only as prey is abundant. Each keeps the other in balance.
It is another matter with homo sapiens. As omnivores we can produce plenty of plant food, that is until our population out numbers our ability to find enough land to cultivate. We do not need animal protein. Predators are non-existent for us (except in rare cases which do not inhibit our growth).
Eventually we will over populate the earth. Meanwhile in search of food we will build buildings at an ever increasing rate until all agricultural land is built over. Then where will the food come from?
The tops of all our buildings? Think about it. If we cover the Earth with buildings, than the tops of our buildings would equal the surface of the Earth. Lots of growing space there, right?
I guess they thought they'd get one last quality article in before their new corporate overlords at Fox sent them the memo that they were no longer allowed to use facts.
We may indeed be about to replay the Permian catastrophe, when life was reduced by about 95%. So what?
The Earth will soon replenish itself from whatever organisms are left to continue the struggle. Mass extinctions seem to be a way for evolution to ratchet up the sophistication of the biosphere. After each such event, the best and brightest, the most adaptable forms that remain are more advanced than the survivors of the previous events, and so life stars over from a higher point of organization.
Its all just part of the natural life cycle of living planets, I think.
Geologic history suggests cycles of mass extinctions have occurred. I think it's a safe bet that they will continue. But I even wonder if man will still be here when the next one comes. We are good at adapting, but our longevity so far, even when we include us with the hominids that came before us pales in comparison to previous dominant species.
Quote from: SGOS on November 04, 2016, 07:30:12 PM
Geologic history suggests cycles of mass extinctions have occurred. I think it's a safe bet that they will continue. But I even wonder if man will still be here when the next one comes. We are good at adapting, but our longevity so far, even when we include us with the hominids that came before us pales in comparison to previous dominant species.
Humans will never be as cool as dinosaurs, at least to little boys ;-)
Drive from the southern tip of Texas to the Canadian border, then tell us we'll cover the Earth. We could house ten times the population of the Earth today in the Rockies.
The rest could just Stand on Zanzibar.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 05, 2016, 01:29:37 PM
Drive from the southern tip of Texas to the Canadian border, then tell us we'll cover the Earth. We could house ten times the population of the Earth today in the Rockies.
The rest could just Stand on Zanzibar.
Yes, no food supply problem, we will just eat each other like the Andean plane crash. And no sewage problems either, just crap on your neighbor's head.
My money is on that man will annihilate humanity in an argument over which imaginary sky daddy is the real sky daddy.
If there is any question about how stupid mankind is, consider for a moment if you will, that out of 330,000,000 people Hillary and Trump are the best that can be fielded for president.
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 04, 2016, 05:55:24 PM
We may indeed be about to replay the Permian catastrophe, when life was reduced by about 95%. So what?
The Earth will soon replenish itself from whatever organisms are left to continue the struggle. Mass extinctions seem to be a way for evolution to ratchet up the sophistication of the biosphere. After each such event, the best and brightest, the most adaptable forms that remain are more advanced than the survivors of the previous events, and so life stars over from a higher point of organization.
Its all just part of the natural life cycle of living planets, I think.
Not unless we sterilize the planet with radiation bombs. Each natural extinction event seems to cause less death. The ones who survived the previous ones are more suited to survive the next.
Quote from: Cavebear on November 06, 2016, 01:55:17 AM
Not unless we sterilize the planet with radiation bombs. Each natural extinction event seems to cause less death. The ones who survived the previous ones are more suited to survive the next.
Cockroaches can survive nuclear radiation, and scorpions can survive an ice age. Apes not so much.
Quote from: Baruch on November 05, 2016, 05:41:08 PM
Yes, no food supply problem, we will just eat each other like the Andean plane crash. And no sewage problems either, just crap on your neighbor's head.
Just go (Soylent) Green.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 06, 2016, 07:23:05 AM
Just go (Soylent) Green.
But keep in mind that cockroaches are tropical bugs and can't survive without the warmth of our buildings. in the North and far South/ If WE go away, so will they.
Quote from: Cavebear on November 06, 2016, 07:44:34 AM
But keep in mind that cockroaches are tropical bugs and can't survive without the warmth of our buildings. in the North and far South/ If WE go away, so will they.
I'm going polar bear, so I don't care.
Quote from: Baruch on November 05, 2016, 05:41:08 PM
Yes, no food supply problem, we will just eat each other like the Andean plane crash. And no sewage problems either, just crap on your neighbor's head.
Avogadro's law of human dispersion states that empty areas of land fill in with humans, the emptier the faster. This is true in Montana over the last 50 years. Chicago seems about the same, but not less dense, however. So it would seem the population is growing, not just rearranging.
This is why swampland in Florida is such a good buy ... osmosis of retired people.
Quote from: Sal1981 on October 30, 2016, 09:11:55 AM
Two thirds of vertebrate species will be extinct, counted from 1970, according to this article.
These are mainly specialised and exotic animals though, you won't see rats on the list.
Nor cockroaches. :histerical:
If humans survive all our challenges, that proves we are a cross between rats and cockroaches ;-)
Quote from: Sal1981 on October 30, 2016, 09:11:55 AM
Two thirds of vertebrate species will be extinct, counted from 1970, according to this article.
These are mainly specialised and exotic animals though, you won't see rats on the list.
You are right, Sal. In fact we have one that will be in the White House soon.
Humans are nearly the most adaptable species on Earth. We will fill up all possible niches.
Quote from: Cavebear on November 13, 2016, 02:30:42 AM
Humans are nearly the most adaptable species on Earth. We will fill up all possible niches.
Yes, just like the Star Trek Classic episode about over-population. Utopia sucks, if there are too many utopians.
I am someone who does believe the human species is far to overpopulated in areas of the world, we can see proof of that in third world countries where the starvation is coupled with to many mouths to feed, no contraception, and probably men praying to their angry sky god for their not to be another mouth to feed, just to have five more a pop.
Where theres to many people and not enough resources, you then have conflicts created, and people leaving in droves from such regions, coupled with other countries taking said resources from them, escalating the problem.
We are to overpopulated. When there are over populations of animal species in a region that effects the natural wildlife, like toads eating frogs or crickets eating crops, we as a species cull those creatures by what we think as giving balance back, and yet, when our own species gets culled, its a genocide, a tragedy, something that rocks the world.
We're a kind of self absorbed species thats dickish to all others. We might have exceptions like conservation, but overall, the greater majority is more concerned about having their froffy cappuccino then the cows locked in place unable to move while being milked.
Speaking of being milked, I have some delightful images involving guys in such situations.
(now who wants extra foam on their coffee)
Quote from: Cavebear on November 06, 2016, 01:55:17 AM
Not unless we sterilize the planet with radiation bombs. Each natural extinction event seems to cause less death. The ones who survived the previous ones are more suited to survive the next.
I don't think sterilizing the Earth is possible, given the deep hot biosphere.
http://europepmc.org/backend/ptpmcrender.fcgi?accid=PMC49434&blobtype=pdf
Quote from: Cavebear on November 13, 2016, 02:30:42 AM
Humans are nearly the most adaptable species on Earth. We will fill up all possible niches.
Apparently
we humans were so good at sweating, and running, that nothing could get away from us. (http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2007/04/humans-hot-sweaty-natural-born-runners/)
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 15, 2016, 06:10:10 PM
Apparently we humans were so good at sweating, and running, that nothing could get away from us. (http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2007/04/humans-hot-sweaty-natural-born-runners/)
The Kalahari Bushmen learned that trick from the African painted dogs, I believe.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 15, 2016, 06:35:11 PM
The Kalahari Bushmen learned that trick from the African painted dogs, I believe.
Human beings are the only species that are natural super-marathoners ... we wounded game, then chased it to death (since our weapons were only semi-lethal). And human women can smell water (in tubers) under the sand. When we return to our natural form of 20,000 years ago, anyone still alive will be very fit for survival ... fat accountants not so much ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on November 15, 2016, 07:19:36 PM
Human beings are the only species that are natural super-marathoners ... we wounded game, then chased it to death (since our weapons were only semi-lethal). And human women can smell water (in tubers) under the sand. When we return to our natural form of 20,000 years ago, anyone still alive will be very fit for survival ... fat accountants not so much ;-)
And the APDs perfected the relay rundown.
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 15, 2016, 06:10:10 PM
Apparently we humans were so good at sweating, and running, that nothing could get away from us. (http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2007/04/humans-hot-sweaty-natural-born-runners/)
Yes, the running down the prey worked well.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 15, 2016, 06:35:11 PM
The Kalahari Bushmen learned that trick from the African painted dogs, I believe.
It IS one of the reasons that humans and dogs learned to live and hunt together. We both got food the same way. And the wolves learned that we were a better pack hunter than THEY were and accepted us as pack leaders. The tamer and lowest ranked members anyway...
Quote from: Cavebear on November 17, 2016, 05:23:22 AM
It IS one of the reasons that humans and dogs learned to live and hunt together. We both got food the same way. And the wolves learned that we were a better pack hunter than THEY were and accepted us as pack leaders. The tamer and lowest ranked members anyway...
The human-as-leader would have been programmed into them while they were still puppies. You can dominate a month-old puppy and it will be submission from then on, in general. Trickier for pure wolves, you have to get to them during the first week of their life. They have to understand this early that things that smell like us are dominant. It seriously amused me to hear "Hoskins" (Vincent D'Onofrio, AKA the big bug from MIB) talking about bonding with a two month old "wolf pup" in "Jurassic World".
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on November 17, 2016, 06:02:03 AM
The human-as-leader would have been programmed into them while they were still puppies. You can dominate a month-old puppy and it will be submission from then on, in general. Trickier for pure wolves, you have to get to them during the first week of their life. They have to understand this early that things that smell like us are dominant. It seriously amused me to hear "Hoskins" (Vincent D'Onofrio, AKA the big bug from MIB) talking about bonding with a two month old "wolf pup" in "Jurassic World".
It was the "loser" wolves that we first adopted. Those most submissive would have been attracted to our waste piles, and those cubs ARE cute and non-threatening... I would bet that some preteen girl brought the first starving pup with huge eyes and begging ways in to feed it. "Oh just LOOK at this poor thing".
Quote from: Cavebear on November 17, 2016, 06:10:37 AM
It was the "loser" wolves that we first adopted. Those most submissive would have been attracted to our waste piles, and those cubs ARE cute and non-threatening... I would bet that some preteen girl brought the first starving pup with huge eyes and begging ways in to feed it. "Oh just LOOK at this poor thing".
Or we could have taken entire litters after killing the parents.