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Science Section => Science General Discussion => Biology, Psychology & Medicine => Topic started by: PopeyesPappy on October 18, 2016, 01:57:19 PM

Title: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: PopeyesPappy on October 18, 2016, 01:57:19 PM
Research into using bacteriophage therapy to fight bacterial infections has been going on for decades. It has received a lot of attention from researchers recently due to the rise of antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria. Some of the research looks very promising.

QuotePhages are viruses that seek out, infect and kill bacteria. BYU researchers have successfully used them to save beehives from American foulbrood, and now they are harnessing their abilities to find MRSA and eliminate it.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-09/byu-nmt091415.php
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: Baruch on October 18, 2016, 02:15:00 PM
There is no free lunch.  Viruses released ... are like releasing mutated fruit flies.  Mutated fruit flies reduce the fly population, because they mate but are sterile.  And as such, they can't make a new mutated mutant generation on their own.  I don't think you can do that with viruses ... a manufactured virus released into the environment, can mutate on its own and propagate, independent of the medical community.  A kind of Russian roulette.  In particular, if a virus is like Hepatitis, and stays in your body for extended periods, it is then available, after mutation to attack you, instead of the original bacteria.  To a virus, you are simply a colony of bacteria.
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: PopeyesPappy on October 18, 2016, 04:12:59 PM
That's the beauty of bacteriophage therapy though, Baruch. It only affects bacteria. Could there be unintended consequences? Sure, but we know MRSA kills. It is probably going to kill a lot more if it overcomes the last few effective drugs. On the other hand there is no precedent for of evidence of bacteriophages doing the same. 
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: Baruch on October 18, 2016, 04:44:05 PM
"It only affects bacteria" ... today, but it will mutate.  Kind of like the mad idea of unloading uncontrolled nano-bots on the environment.  Now if you can find a way to kill targeted bacteria, and it can't mutate ... that would be cool.  Nano-bots might be the solution, provided you don't build self-modifying nano-bots.  I mean, if you want to kill bacteria (and you aren't phobic like Howard Hughes), just use bleach.  Some people will die form the bleach, but maybe more will die from infections.  I know that bleach can't mutate into something else.  WE like high-tech solutions too much, that backfire on us.  The biggest thing that would clean up hospitals, is adopting Japanese culture.  Face masks for everyone, and take your damn dirty shoes off a the entrance.  Our housecleaners have to fight random dirt brought in every day on people's shoes, staff and patients.  See, we could end all these iatrogenic deaths .. if we treated the whole hospital as a ICU ... but it costs too much, and people's lives aren't worth much.
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: Mermaid on October 18, 2016, 06:57:03 PM
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on October 18, 2016, 04:12:59 PM
That's the beauty of bacteriophage therapy though, Baruch. It only affects bacteria. Could there be unintended consequences? Sure, but we know MRSA kills. It is probably going to kill a lot more if it overcomes the last few effective drugs. On the other hand there is no precedent for of evidence of bacteriophages doing the same. 
No.
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: PopeyesPappy on October 18, 2016, 10:15:56 PM
No?
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: PopeyesPappy on October 18, 2016, 10:22:55 PM
Quote from: Baruch on October 18, 2016, 04:44:05 PM
"It only affects bacteria" ... today, but it will mutate.  Kind of like the mad idea of unloading uncontrolled nano-bots on the environment.  Now if you can find a way to kill targeted bacteria, and it can't mutate ... that would be cool.  Nano-bots might be the solution, provided you don't build self-modifying nano-bots.  I mean, if you want to kill bacteria (and you aren't phobic like Howard Hughes), just use bleach.  Some people will die form the bleach, but maybe more will die from infections.  I know that bleach can't mutate into something else.  WE like high-tech solutions too much, that backfire on us.  The biggest thing that would clean up hospitals, is adopting Japanese culture.  Face masks for everyone, and take your damn dirty shoes off a the entrance.  Our housecleaners have to fight random dirt brought in every day on people's shoes, staff and patients.  See, we could end all these iatrogenic deaths .. if we treated the whole hospital as a ICU ... but it costs too much, and people's lives aren't worth much.

These virus already exist. These types of virus have existed for billions of years. They have heavily influenced evolution, and we wouldn't be here without them.
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: Baruch on October 19, 2016, 12:20:50 AM
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on October 18, 2016, 10:22:55 PM
These virus already exist. These types of virus have existed for billions of years. They have heavily influenced evolution, and we wouldn't be here without them.

So is Bubonic Plague ... Bubonic Plague isn't dangerous?
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: Cavebear on October 19, 2016, 04:38:35 AM
I have to be on both sides of this.  First, we are adapted to most bacteria and viruses.  They are even part of our DNA,  Second, a lot of our bodies depend on them.  But some could gleefully be eliminated and it would not bother me to eliminate those. 

Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: SGOS on October 19, 2016, 04:53:18 AM
MRSA: a type of staph bacteria that's become resistant to many of the antibiotics used to treat ordinary staph infections.
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: Cavebear on October 19, 2016, 06:28:24 AM
That can be beaten given a few year's research and some of us are already resistant to it.   
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: Baruch on October 19, 2016, 07:10:18 AM
Quote from: SGOS on October 19, 2016, 04:53:18 AM
MRSA: a type of staph bacteria that's become resistant to many of the antibiotics used to treat ordinary staph infections.

Iatrogenic .. another victory for mad science.  Human beings fight life ... but life will win, even micro-life we fear and hate.
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: Baruch on October 19, 2016, 07:12:08 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on October 19, 2016, 06:28:24 AM
That can be beaten given a few year's research and some of us are already resistant to it.

it isn't research that beats poisoning for example, it takes not intaking poison in the first place.  But use what high tech you will, since that is the agenda of the drug companies.  Like I said, it is as simple as everyone taking their damn shoes off (in some locations).  I work in a clinic, have for almost 20 years, and I have known this since I started, that we apply bandaids to a sieve.
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: PopeyesPappy on October 19, 2016, 07:38:32 AM
Quote from: Baruch on October 19, 2016, 12:20:50 AM
So is Bubonic Plague ... Bubonic Plague isn't dangerous?

This isn't Bubonic Plague, but it could be a cure. It isn't genetic engineering either. I mention that because I know you oppose genetically engineered organisms and want to make sure you read the article and understand that isn't what we are talking about. The scientists in the article I linked are testing naturally occurring virus. They have already identified 6 that kill MRSA bacteria. The goal of their research is to find one that infects MRSA bacteria without infecting the beneficial bacteria we host in our bodies. If they are successful then you are welcome to refuse such treatment if/when it becomes available.
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: Mermaid on October 19, 2016, 08:12:37 AM
Quote from: PopeyesPappy on October 18, 2016, 10:15:56 PM
No?
Oops! I really need to read what I am quoting. I always get that wrong.
So to Baruch: No.
The vast majority of viruses and bacteria go about their business without harming humans. Very, very very few are pathogenic. Bacteriophage are incredibly diverse and have been going about their business for millions of years.

Yes. Pathogenic organisms probably evolved from nonpathogenic ones. The chances of creating one artificially are diminishingly small. Virus infection is so incredibly specific. Bacteriophage therapy sure beats another beta lactam antibiotic or other of its ilk. Do you have any suggestions? It sounds like you want to let nature take its course and let pathogens be pathogens for the greater good. Take one for the team.
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: Mermaid on October 19, 2016, 08:13:20 AM
Quote from: Baruch on October 19, 2016, 12:20:50 AM
So is Bubonic Plague ... Bubonic Plague isn't dangerous?
Not a virus.
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: Cavebear on October 19, 2016, 09:23:24 AM
Quote from: Baruch on October 19, 2016, 07:12:08 AM

Like I said, it is as simple as everyone taking their damn shoes off (in some locations).  I work in a clinic, have for almost 20 years, and I have known this since I started, that we apply bandaids to a sieve.

You jest sir!  Taking ones shoes off indoors (or somewhere) will cure disease?  Do you also still believe in bloodletting?  Does someone in a mask dancing around you aid in your health?

I am a descendent of people who survived Bubonic and Pnuemonial Plague, Smallpox, and all sorts of Influenzas.  In all my adult life, I have never once caught The Common Cold or Flu (but so mildly at 12).  I earned that genetic protection one gene at a time through the survival of some ancestors and the deaths of others.

How dare you say that some of my loser ancestors would have survived had they merely taken off their shoes in their mud&wattle dirt-floored serf huts!   
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: Baruch on October 19, 2016, 12:56:06 PM
Quote from: Cavebear on October 19, 2016, 09:23:24 AM
You jest sir!  Taking ones shoes off indoors (or somewhere) will cure disease?  Do you also still believe in bloodletting?  Does someone in a mask dancing around you aid in your health?

I am a descendent of people who survived Bubonic and Pnuemonial Plague, Smallpox, and all sorts of Influenzas.  In all my adult life, I have never once caught The Common Cold or Flu (but so mildly at 12).  I earned that genetic protection one gene at a time through the survival of some ancestors and the deaths of others.

How dare you say that some of my loser ancestors would have survived had they merely taken off their shoes in their mud&wattle dirt-floored serf huts!

You don't comprehend well ;-)  Stop putting dirt and shit everywhere ... and maybe the medical process will be more successful.  Lay people are just like doctors 150 years ago, who couldn't comprehend how gentlemen like them should disinfect their hands between patients.
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: fencerider on May 27, 2017, 12:21:59 PM
so a bacteriophage is an illness that is fatal to bacteria; just like the common cold was fatal to millions of native Americans?

I think the biggest vector in the hospitals is the A/C system. The thing is constantly moving air from one part of the hospital to another. How much effort is put into sterilizing the air coming from a sick person's bed before dumping it on healthy people?
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: Baruch on May 27, 2017, 12:34:39 PM
Quote from: fencerider on May 27, 2017, 12:21:59 PM
so a bacteriophage is an illness that is fatal to bacteria; just like the common cold was fatal to millions of native Americans?

I think the biggest vector in the hospitals is the A/C system. The thing is constantly moving air from one part of the hospital to another. How much effort is put into sterilizing the air coming from a sick person's bed before dumping it on healthy people?

I work in a medical facility.  You are correct .. A/C is bad.  So are floors that can't be scrubbed germ free (we had anti-bacterial carpets at one point ... stupid).  That and people should take their shoes off (like in Japan) and put on disposable booties and put on disposable face covers, at all times.  But people in general, and Americans in particular ... are filthy.  Our cleaning crew has to work non-stop to try to keep the soft tile floors clean (we got rid of the carpet).
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: SGOS on May 27, 2017, 01:49:16 PM
And hospitals worry about bacterial infections?  My last stay in a hospital, a woman came in to mop the floors once a week.  I didn't smell any disinfectant, so I assumed there wasn't any.  I just rolled my eyes, but didn't say anything.  I guess it's good to kind of smear the dirt around less you end up with a hot pocket of festering goo.
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: Baruch on May 27, 2017, 02:52:15 PM
Quote from: SGOS on May 27, 2017, 01:49:16 PM
And hospitals worry about bacterial infections?  My last stay in a hospital, a woman came in to mop the floors once a week.  I didn't smell any disinfectant, so I assumed there wasn't any.  I just rolled my eyes, but didn't say anything.  I guess it's good to kind of smear the dirt around less you end up with a hot pocket of festering goo.

Penny wise, pound foolish ... this is why a Q-tip costs $5 apiece after insurance.  Gotta pay for those administrators.
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: fencerider on May 27, 2017, 11:54:04 PM
don't forget the mop itself. I worked in a restaurant long enough to know that if you don't bleach the mop and rinse it off before mopping the floor, the customers will be complaining all day about how much the place stinks. (not everybody cleans the mop before they clean a floor)
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: Cavebear on June 18, 2017, 07:24:02 AM
We may be returning to the days when hospitals were where  sick people went to get sicker and die.  I know I'll fight tooth and nail to stay out of one.  I don't even like the Dr's waiting room.  Its full of people sicker than I am and with stuff I don't have.

Mopping?  I've never seen it done in a hospital.  They assume the place is sterile.  LOL!
Title: Re: Using viruses to treat MRSA infections
Post by: Baruch on June 18, 2017, 09:03:52 AM
Quote from: Cavebear on June 18, 2017, 07:24:02 AM
We may be returning to the days when hospitals were where  sick people went to get sicker and die.  I know I'll fight tooth and nail to stay out of one.  I don't even like the Dr's waiting room.  Its full of people sicker than I am and with stuff I don't have.

Mopping?  I've never seen it done in a hospital.  They assume the place is sterile.  LOL!

Already happening, per statistics over the last 10 years.  Sorry, but apes are dirty creatures.