QuoteAre we alone in the universe?
An international group of astronomers has detected an interesting radio signal spike, one that could possibly be of alien origin, from a star system located 95 light-years away.
Scientists who search for extraterrestrial intelligence in the universe, a field known as SETI, find the powerful signal unique enough to warrant permanent monitoring of the signal’s source.
https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/29/et-is-that-you-astronomers-detect-intriguing-signal-95-light-years-away/
95 light years is way too close for this to be of any real interest. If ET was only that little distance away, then the likelihood is that there are many ETs in the galaxy, so many that we should be able to easily detect them. 95 light years is right next door!
If they were that close, though, they'd be just about on the leading edge of our radio bubble, since it was about that long ago when we began openly broadcasting our presence.
It's always an interesting question, but I think that for all practical purposes that during the duration of our species here on Earth, humans will always be alone. And then we will go the way of all species that have preceded us. Maybe aliens will one day find some of our artifacts, but I'm guessing that won't happen either.
The problem with aliens catching our signals, if they have to be listening, and pointing the antenna in just the right direction, when they are not sitting on the crapper during station breaks during I Love Zafod.
Quote from: Baruch on August 31, 2016, 06:23:03 PM
The problem with aliens catching our signals, if they have to be listening, and pointing the antenna in just the right direction
Given that radio-signals is a technology they not only develloped as well, but also that it's still in use.
Naw, it's a blip. Space noise happens. It's like the equivalent of searching for a needle in a field of haystacks and getting excited over something that's going to turn out to be a piece of a gum wrapper instead.
Yeah. I'm expecting a blip as well. The extremely Sol-like star is the real story here. There might be a few interesting rocky planets there.
I think planets that are sufficiently Earth-like are very rare (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis). It's unlikely that any such are within several thousand light years of us, if there are any at all. Even if there are planets enough like ours, the likelihood is very small, I think, that evolution would've generated something remotely like us.
Of course, there could be life very much unlike us, not needing our type of planet at all.
This is the rare Earth equation:
(https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/5131bfc46cc76eac9feba6ebc63d45dfdf0f6eaa)
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/aug/31/ratan-600-telescope-russia-extratrerrestrial-aliens-space
Totally unexpected, the signal is human-, not alien-made.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on September 01, 2016, 07:19:29 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/aug/31/ratan-600-telescope-russia-extratrerrestrial-aliens-space
Totally unexpected, the signal is human-, not alien-made.
Not surprising. Radio signals tend to jumble and interfere with other signals quite often.
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 01, 2016, 05:57:12 PM
I think planets that are sufficiently Earth-like are very rare (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis). It's unlikely that any such are within several thousand light years of us, if there are any at all. Even if there are planets enough like ours, the likelihood is very small, I think, that evolution would've generated something remotely like us.
Of course, there could be life very much unlike us, not needing our type of planet at all.
'Remotely like us' is a meaningless qualifier when talking about the possibility of intelligent life elsewhere in this galaxy, or in the universe. We only have the one data point -- ourselves -- so we really have no idea what's possible biologically in other long-term stable ecosystems.
That said, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that intelligent life requires a planet not too dissimilar from ours -- warm enough to permit liquid water, which is a profoundly useful solvent for deep-time evolutionary chemical "experiments". Simple life of course need not be so picky.
"The government has successfully covered up the detection of an alien invasion fleet that was predicted TWICE in the 'Independence Day' movies."
I translated eHillBilly into English so you folks could understand it.
I has lots of cousins, ya'll can have some iff'n ya want.
Unless you believe that sentient life forms able to develop civilizations are inevitable ... but that is a statement of faith ;-) If there are a million species at any given time on a planet, and if any species like we have can be the peak predator like we are ... I see it a million to one that there are human like aliens on any Earth-like planet as opposed to dolphins or mice. So we might be the only human-like sentients in this galaxy at this time.
Suppose there is ONE other intelligent species somewhere in the Universe right now. If it's more than one hundred light years away it has never heard of us. What if it's in a galaxy 5 billion light years away? It WILL never hear of us.
While the number of planets in the universe is absurdly large, the possibility for any particular evolutionary outcome is equally large. It took 5 billion years for intelligence to accidently happen on Earth, and when it did, it resulted in highly imperfect life forms, one of which has a propensity for self destruction of its own species.
Quote from: SGOS on October 03, 2016, 08:22:58 AMWhile the number of planets in the universe is absurdly large, the possibility for any particular evolutionary outcome is equally large. It took 5 billion years for intelligence to accidently happen on Earth, and when it did, it resulted in highly imperfect life forms, one of which has a propensity for self destruction of its own species.
Yeah. And consider that the world's most intelligent animals are a mixture of terrestrial mammal, aquatic mammal, and some bird species (with cephalopods as an honorable mention).
The species that came to dominate the planet is an odd-looing ape species with the incredibly good fortunate to develop intelligence, bipedalism (freeing up hands for tool use), and language. That combination is not typical. Intelligence itself might not be too difficult to evolve - increasingly cunning predators as an evolutionary response to increasingly elusive prey - but an intelligent, social, tool-using species - the kind that builds cities and machines - might be frustratingly rare in the universe.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 03, 2016, 10:00:58 AM
Yeah. And consider that the world's most intelligent animals are a mixture of terrestrial mammal, aquatic mammal, and some bird species (with cephalopods as an honorable mention).
The species that came to dominate the planet is an odd-looing ape species with the incredibly good fortunate to develop intelligence, bipedalism (freeing up hands for tool use), and language. That combination is not typical. Intelligence itself might not be too difficult to evolve - increasingly cunning predators as an evolutionary response to increasingly elusive prey - but an intelligent, social, tool-using species - the kind that builds cities and machines - might be frustratingly rare in the universe.
Yes, and our presence on the earth was not inevitable or a necessity. The Earth has produced more species than we even know about, and some with far greater track records at evolutionary success than humans. We are just one more freak that has established itself during a period of highly atypical but temporary environmental conditions that we are suited for.
And the whole ape family of the order primates is an odd set of creatures to observe. When I look at apes in general, they seem like some crazy species that surely doesn't belong in this world. While other species spend their time eating and reproducing, the apes spend a lot of time farting around, gawking at things, and seeing what happens when they stick something or other up a nostril.
Quote from: Hydra009 on October 03, 2016, 10:00:58 AM
Yeah. And consider that the world's most intelligent animals are a mixture of terrestrial mammal, aquatic mammal, and some bird species (with cephalopods as an honorable mention).
This was discussed at length in my extraterrestrial life course last spring, and I think serves as an interesting case study in evolution. Virtually every biome on Earth has at least one species with remarkable intelligence, and many who are even theorized to have a concept of "self" and the ability to use tools. It seems like humans just sort of won the race to the top, but I like to think of things like elephants, raccoons, crows, orcas, chimps, and squid as understudies for the human race in the event we really do find a way to wipe ourselves out.
Quote from: TomFoolery on October 03, 2016, 12:40:34 PM
This was discussed at length in my extraterrestrial life course last spring, and I think serves as an interesting case study in evolution. Virtually every biome on Earth has at least one species with remarkable intelligence, and many who are even theorized to have a concept of "self" and the ability to use tools. It seems like humans just sort of won the race to the top, but I like to think of things like elephants, raccoons, crows, orcas, chimps, and squid as understudies for the human race in the event we really do find a way to wipe ourselves out.
Raccoons have an edge on the others in your list, they already live in cities and use technology.
If the universe is infinite (as is sometimes claimed), then there is someone somewhere exactly like me right down the the DNA, typing these ezact words RIGHT NOW and the previous typo at this very moment, all the other previous moments and possible typos, and at all future moments. Does that seem to get a bit bizarre?
Quote from: Cavebear on October 29, 2016, 11:20:41 AM
If the universe is infinite (as is sometimes claimed), then there is someone somewhere exactly like me right down the the DNA, typing these ezact words RIGHT NOW and the previous typo at this very moment, all the other previous moments and possible typos, and at all future moments. Does that seem to get a bit bizarre?
See Nietzsche's idea of Eternal Recurrence. Infinity is a lot smaller than people imagine ;-)
Quote from: Cavebear on October 29, 2016, 11:20:41 AM
If the universe is infinite (as is sometimes claimed), then there is someone somewhere exactly like me right down the the DNA, typing these ezact words RIGHT NOW and the previous typo at this very moment, all the other previous moments and possible typos, and at all future moments. Does that seem to get a bit bizarre?
Actually, an infinite universe allows for infinite different actions. Doing the same thing over and over again is redundant and repetitive.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 29, 2016, 01:33:17 PM
Actually, an infinite universe allows for infinite different actions.
Good point. Well, I think it's a good point, but we are talking about infinity.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 29, 2016, 01:33:17 PM
Actually, an infinite universe allows for infinite different actions. Doing the same thing over and over again is redundant and repetitive.
How do you know we AREN'T repetitive?
How do you know we AREN'T repetitive?
How do you know we AREN'T repetitive?
Quote from: Cavebear on October 31, 2016, 04:23:50 AM
How do you know we AREN'T repetitive?
How do you know we AREN'T repetitive?
How do you know we AREN'T repetitive?
I don't know we AREN'T repetitive. I do know that a branching causality is unlikely to repeat.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on October 31, 2016, 11:54:12 AM
I don't know we AREN'T repetitive. I do know that a branching causality is unlikely to repeat.
Given infinite branches, doesn't there have to be repitition somewhere?
Quote from: Cavebear on October 31, 2016, 11:57:06 AM
Given infinite branches, doesn't there have to be repitition somewhere?
Two branches would have to have the same antecedents. The closer to congruity, the greater the number of identical antecedents needed.
Maybe time is going faster all the time. And what we have come to think of as an illusion of age is not an illusion at all.
Fact: We're all going to die. We can die alone, die with the friend or foe or we can die at the hand of the Borg. Resistance is futile.
I don't particularly care if we're alone in the universe or if there's a race of human sausage making maniacs on the loose just cruising through the galaxies.
Quote from: Cavebear on October 31, 2016, 11:57:06 AM
Given infinite branches, doesn't there have to be repitition somewhere?
Obama is a reptile. It says so on the internet and they can't say things that aren't true on the internet.
Oh wait..R E P E T I T I O N.. I read reptilian.. IT'S THE SAME THING, DAMMIT!
Neurology ... our inner brain is reptilian, it lurks inside the mammalian, which lurks inside the cognitive. The most inner core of the brain .. we are jellyfish with bad attitude ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on November 01, 2016, 12:27:00 PM
Neurology ... our inner brain is reptilian, it lurks inside the mammalian, which lurks inside the cognitive. The most inner core of the brain .. we are jellyfish with bad attitude ;-)
Once you go lizard you never go back.
Unless you go kaiju, in which case fuck them little lizards.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on November 01, 2016, 04:22:19 AM
Obama is a reptile. It says so on the internet and they can't say things that aren't true on the internet.
Oh wait..R E P E T I T I O N.. I read reptilian.. IT'S THE SAME THING, DAMMIT!
Well, there is value in reptiles. As they say, a crocodilian never forgets...
Some reptiles are only valuable because they can be made into boots.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqVhfuLWIAQjkrl.jpg)
Alligator tastes good ... a bit like shark ... for some strange reason ;-) Maybe all the naked women bathers they consume ;-(
Quote from: Unbeliever on November 04, 2016, 06:22:56 PM
Some reptiles are only valuable because they can be made into boots.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqVhfuLWIAQjkrl.jpg)
Maybe that camian's mother ate small python invading the Everglades...
Pythons don't stay small ... similar to government programs ;-)
I think the rare earth equation is missing a factor. Any intelligent species will at some point discover nuclear weapons. So the missing factor in the equation is the percentage of species that survive the discovery of nuclear weapons versus those that destroy themselves.
meh, frankly I can't buy that of the hundred billion (trilllion) snowflakes that no two are alike.....
Quote from: aitm on December 10, 2016, 07:55:55 PM
meh, frankly I can't buy that of the hundred billion (trilllion) snowflakes that no two are alike.....
Most of them aren't symmetrical. The ones in the books were chosen out of the masses.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 10, 2016, 08:56:59 PM
Most of them aren't symmetrical. The ones in the books were chosen out of the masses.
Metaphor for current Democrats? ;-)
Quote from: aitm on December 10, 2016, 07:55:55 PMmeh, frankly I can't buy that of the hundred billion (trilllion) snowflakes that no two are alike.....
That's likely true (http://www.nbcnews.com/id/16759121/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/two-snowflakes-may-actually-be-alike/), because we're talking about a pretty sizable amount of water molecules and slight changes in temperature and pressure change how they grow. You end up with a branching process through a huge amount of possible outcomes.
In much the same way, life on Earth went through one hell of a branching process. Who knows where we'd be if the K/T extinction never happened or if mitochondria never hooked up with eukaryotes or if bees never evolved. If the Toba event was just a little bit more disastrous than it was, humanity gets snuffed out.
So yeah, I'm pretty skeptical on the idea that if check out enough planets, one of them is going to be just like Earth. I could understand a planet very similar to Earth. But pink bipedal mammals with opposable thumbs, speech, and an utterly bizarre tendency to produce Sharknado movies? I doubt it.
Quote from: Baruch on December 10, 2016, 09:06:48 PM
Metaphor for current Democrats? ;-)
Same old hobby horse? You're going to swayback that beast.
Quote from: fencerider on December 10, 2016, 07:26:26 PM
I think the rare earth equation is missing a factor. Any intelligent species will at some point discover nuclear weapons. So the missing factor in the equation is the percentage of species that survive the discovery of nuclear weapons versus those that destroy themselves.
Are you referring to the Drake Equation?
Actually, this is rolled up into the consideration of lifetime of a civilization, or "L". I took a very interesting seminar on the topic of extraterrestrial life in college. I imagined I would watch a few episodes of Ancient Aliens and write a few papers about it, but we broke down the Drake Equation to the nitty gritty.
The lifetime of a civilization can be limited by any number of things which fall into only two categories. Either we'll kill ourselves off or something else will do it for us.
It's easy to come up with ideas for how we'll end our species, and nuclear weapons is just one of many possibilities. It also includes biological weapons, climate change, the singularity, etc. Granted, some are more far-fetched than others, but that's what's fun about pondering the possibility.
Coming up with ways in which other things could kill us is tougher but scarier. Seismic activity, massive solar storms, asteroid impacts, devastating plague, are the ones that might come to mind, but there are a whole host of astronomic phenomena we don't understand. You can even add in alien invasions. It's theoretically possible, right?
But the flip side to the idea that every advanced civilization eventually builds the tools to destroy itself is that to have advanced so far, we must also be building the tools to save ourselves. And we are. Nuclear weapons have devastating consequences, but nuclear energy offers a lot of solutions to climate change, if done correctly. Biological weapons and incredible medical advancements also go hand in hand.
One thing the Drake Equation ignores is "Why would they come here?"
And HOLY SHIT! Suppose we send out the one signal that alerts some race of giants with technology that leads them here so we can all be made into little sausage links for their dinner tables? Oops. Well we didn't really mean for this to happen so let's pretend that it didn't. We're an extremely war-like bunch and make assumptions that every other potential race in the universe isn't.. That's a hell of a leap of faith wouldn't you say?
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on December 11, 2016, 11:57:35 AM
And HOLY SHIT! Suppose we send out the one signal that alerts some race of giants with technology that leads them here so we can all be made into little sausage links for their dinner tables? Oops. Well we didn't really mean for this to happen so let's pretend that it didn't. We're an extremely war-like bunch and make assumptions that every other potential race in the universe isn't.. That's a hell of a leap of faith wouldn't you say?
And another one is to assume that they're like us in any way.
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 11, 2016, 11:33:57 AM
One thing the Drake Equation ignores is "Why would they come here?"
It doesn't, actually. This falls under the consideration of Communication (f sub c). They must be both able and
willing to communicate.
Quote from: TomFoolery on December 12, 2016, 10:09:53 AM
It doesn't, actually. This falls under the consideration of Communication (f sub c). They must be both able and willing to communicate.
And the "willing" requires that they be interested in talking to us or visiting. Why would they do that?
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 12, 2016, 10:48:25 AM
And the "willing" requires that they be interested in talking to us or visiting. Why would they do that?
They might not be. That's why you have to consider that before assigned a value to f sub c.
Quote from: Unbeliever on September 01, 2016, 05:57:12 PM
I think planets that are sufficiently Earth-like are very rare (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis). It's unlikely that any such are within several thousand light years of us, if there are any at all. Even if there are planets enough like ours, the likelihood is very small, I think, that evolution would've generated something remotely like us.
Of course, there could be life very much unlike us, not needing our type of planet at all.
This is the rare Earth equation:
(https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/5131bfc46cc76eac9feba6ebc63d45dfdf0f6eaa)
I watch a lot of sci-fi and I can tell you definitively, almost all intelligent life in the universe has quite a bit in common with us. Usually 2 legs, 2 arms, 2 eyes on the front of the head, we can mate with most of it (thank you Captain Kirk for testing compatibility with literally every green species). They do sometimes breath different atmosphere, but for the most part they're even oxygen breathers, or at least can wear an unobtrusive device creating little wisps now and then so that they can tolerate our atmosphere. The biggest differences tend to be the head and face or number of fingers and the occasional antenna.
Quote from: widdershins on December 12, 2016, 05:25:11 PM
I watch a lot of sci-fi and I can tell you definitively, almost all intelligent life in the universe has quite a bit in common with us.
No... Some of them have strange ridges on their foreheads, whilst others have strange ridges on their cheeks. Still
other species might have some kind of ridge on their chin, an unusual plume of hair, or colorful spotting. We're
entirely different.
Fantastically different. Not at all alike. Tell me that Bajorans, Betazoids, Trills, or Vulcans are like humans and I'll call you insane.
Those are just the kind of diverse "humans" you find in Hollywood ;-) They aren't aliens at all, unless they hail from Mexico ;-))
Thanks for the correction TomFoolery. I wasn't aware of self annihilation being in the equation...
S.C.P. is a good way to imagine who is going to eat us for dinner. It would be nice to be so different that any alien visitors could coexist because they dont need what we need to live.
Attention all aliens that want to eat us Please, Please, Please don't show up while Donald Trump is taking care of us
Quote from: fencerider on December 13, 2016, 12:35:26 AM
Thanks for the correction TomFoolery. I wasn't aware of self annihilation being in the equation...
S.C.P. is a good way to imagine who is going to eat us for dinner. It would be nice to be so different that any alien visitors could coexist because they dont need what we need to live.
Attention all aliens that want to eat us Please, Please, Please don't show up while Donald Trump is taking care of us
Italians are ... meat balls and pepperoni ;-)
Quote from: TomFoolery on December 12, 2016, 05:29:17 PM
No... Some of them have strange ridges on their foreheads, whilst others have strange ridges on their cheeks. Still other species might have some kind of ridge on their chin, an unusual plume of hair, or colorful spotting. We're entirely different. Fantastically different. Not at all alike. Tell me that Bajorans, Betazoids, Trills, or Vulcans are like humans and I'll call you insane.
Well yeah, but those are minor differences. It's less different than, say, Lady Gaga is to humans.
Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on December 11, 2016, 11:57:35 AMWe're an extremely war-like bunch and make assumptions that every other potential race in the universe isn't.. That's a hell of a leap of faith wouldn't you say?
Yeah, considering that any alien intelligence would likely have evolved from a predator species. Predators need more smarts to outwit the defenses of their prey.
Quote from: widdershins on December 12, 2016, 05:25:11 PM
I watch a lot of sci-fi and I can tell you definitively, almost all intelligent life in the universe has quite a bit in common with us. Usually 2 legs, 2 arms, 2 eyes on the front of the head, we can mate with most of it (thank you Captain Kirk for testing compatibility with literally every green species). They do sometimes breath different atmosphere, but for the most part they're even oxygen breathers, or at least can wear an unobtrusive device creating little wisps now and then so that they can tolerate our atmosphere. The biggest differences tend to be the head and face or number of fingers and the occasional antenna.
I've been wondering lately whether aliens would even share our time sense; there's no reason they have to experience time in the same way we do, Kirk notwithstanding. I know my own time sense gets distorted whenever I smoke the ganja. Perhaps a day to them is as a thousand years...
Quote from: Unbeliever on December 13, 2016, 04:45:54 PM
I've been wondering lately whether aliens would even share our time sense; there's no reason they have to experience time in the same way we do, Kirk notwithstanding. I know my own time sense gets distorted whenever I smoke the ganja. Perhaps a day to them is as a thousand years...
It is very hard for Slackers to conquer the Gamma quadrant ;-)
Quote from: Baruch on December 13, 2016, 07:26:28 PM
It is very hard for Slackers to conquer the Gamma quadrant ;-)
Is that a Dominion reference?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_(Star_Trek)
If our politicians had to spend part of their time in a bucket ... we could take advantage of that, and pour them in the toilet and flush them, while they were vulnerable ;-)
Are we alone? who knows, there may be far more advanced life out there laughing their 3 balls off at our backward civilisation.
Maybe they have thought about making contact and thought better of it.
Quote from: PorkPie on December 14, 2016, 05:14:13 PM
Are we alone? who knows, there may be far more advanced life out there laughing their 3 balls off at our backward civilisation.
Maybe they have thought about making contact and thought better of it.
(http://lifepopper.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/After-50-shades-of-gray-movie-review-lifepopper-laughing-time-5.jpg)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/7d/22/6a/7d226a6d7ed641cfb1d39082aa9d138b.jpg)
Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on December 12, 2016, 10:48:25 AMAnd the "willing" requires that they be interested in talking to us or visiting. Why would they do that?
The Earth isn't very interesting except for one thing: its biosphere. I'd imagine that it would be an alien biologist's (or alien sociologist's) wet dream.
Quote from: PorkPie on December 14, 2016, 05:14:13 PM
Are we alone? who knows, there may be far more advanced life out there laughing their 3 balls off at our backward civilisation.
Maybe they have thought about making contact and thought better of it.
It's conceivable that an advanced alien race might be reluctant to make contact with races who haven't met some condition, like mastery of space travel, or societies deemed too primitive to be able to handle first contact without incident.
Heh, and our popular media (often depicting war with aliens) would likely not please alien audiences.
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 14, 2016, 06:15:23 PM
It's conceivable that an advanced alien race might be reluctant to make contact with races who haven't met some condition, like mastery of space travel, or societies deemed too primitive to be able to handle first contact without incident.
Heh, and our popular media (often depicting war with aliens) would likely not please alien audiences.
SETI Nerd Mode ON. :D
No one outside of about 80 light years could know about that last anyway, and that would require being able to pick up and decode our very earliest radio transmissions, and build up a sufficient understanding of American English to be able to get what Orson Welles' "War of the Worlds" was all about -- and they would have to have picked up that linguistic mastery within the ten, fifteen (Terrestrial) years from the start of powerful commercial broadcasting. With about fifty light years -- when the z-grade sci fi movies of the 50s started being shown on broadcast TV -- they would get a chance to see such sensitive, intelligent alien encounters on film as Teenagers from Outer Space and It Conquered the World and The Blob, *then* they might look at us and perform whatever their equivalent of a slow shake of the head is.
Earlier than that, the only way that anyone out there would think to look here would be if they both happened to notice our star had small, rocky planets, and also were able to separate out the reflected light from Earth from the emitted light of the Sun. An oxygen atmosphere would get their immediate attention since that's unstable. And within about 200 light years, that's the zone where if they can make that fine of an observation, they could infer a primitive technology by the schmutz we were putting into that interesting oxygen atmosphere.
In short, oxygen implies life; crud implies technology.
The biggest issues with SETI are first, that we only have the vaguest idea of what we're looking for. Intelligent life is like obscenity to the late Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart - we can't define it easily, but we'll know it when we see it.
Second, we may be chasing a vanishingly small window of opportunity. Human made radio emissions are barely a century old, even less so radio emissions that could be picked up at the distances necessary for an ET's SETI project to catch. And in that brief time -- brief relative to the time that our species has been here -- broadcast is already becoming obsolete in favor of cabled delivery. What parts are broadcasted are relatively weak, or aimed at terrestrial receivers. The days of the 250,000+ watt AM radio border blasters that propelled Wolfman Jack to fame are essentially over: the broadcast portions are a tight beam up to a satellite, a directional beam back down again, and a localized broadcast either from your nearest cellular tower or from your wi-fi router. Outside of a little accidental spill from the upward beam to the satellite, none of these are going to be detectable from the Moon, much less from another stellar system.
So I think it's most likely that if (when?) we hear another signal, it will be from someone who is actively trying to be heard rather than the accidental leakage of broadcasts. Sagan's scenario in
Contact is entirely plausible: a dedicated station that, when it detects a signal of sentient origin, begins beaming a message back once it has a fix.
It's also entirely plausible that such an automated station may be another civilization's tombstone, marking off someone who used to be there and is no longer, quietly listening in the dark when there's no longer anyone to report what it's heard to.
Quote from: Hydra009 on December 14, 2016, 06:03:15 PM
The Earth isn't very interesting except for one thing: its biosphere. I'd imagine that it would be an alien biologist's (or alien sociologist's) wet dream.
Why? Is it special? Do we know that for certain?
And...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkMFLUXTEwM
Quote from: PorkPie on December 14, 2016, 05:14:13 PM
Are we alone? who knows, there may be far more advanced life out there laughing their 3 balls off at our backward civilisation.
Maybe they have thought about making contact and thought better of it.
Yeah, better listen to that wise 4-ball-chinian!
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0nokjCzVP8U/hqdefault.jpg)
(https://img.ifcdn.com/images/92d2170d17d0680dbafbabfa09f8db4b3dc99447_1.jpg)
Haha .. but someday you will be old, and look like a hideous alien from a 1950s B movie!
I once started writing a story in which humanity was visited by a perfect race of aliens. They had enough resources and technology to bring us into the space-faring stage of our kind. They had so much to teach us and were willing to, because they saw potential in us. But, on the other hand, they deemed us too dangerous and barbaric; should we have their technology and our tendency to violence, war and rivalry. So they tried to teach us purity and rewarded us with technology the better we behaved ourselves as a species. Lies and jealousy and greed and ... were all foreign concepts to them.
The story was to focus mainly on the suspicions surrounding this mysterious species and their intents. Were they really trying to help us (or was this like 'to serve man')? Were they just trying to control a potential threat they saw in us? Were they really as powerful as they seemed? Were we, in 'behaving' ourselves not becoming more like them and less human?
The protagonist of the story would go investigate and find that the longer he searched, the more sinister their intents seemed. Until the conclusion of the story; which would show they did try to help us, in their eyes, and share their fortune with us. But that in trying to make us pure, they allowed us to corrupt them. And by that, they'd become as dominating and poisonous as we could be.
My computer crashed. And while what I'd written was in no way superb, I wish I had a copy of that.
Long story short: I don't think I'd wish us upon just any other civilization though.
This is how Vulcans helped the Earth in the 22nd century ;-) But even if the Vulcans exterminate you, it is the logical thing to do ;-))
Quote from: Baruch on January 03, 2017, 07:58:44 PM
Haha .. but someday you will be old, and look like a hideous alien from a 1950s B movie!
Hell, I already look like a cross between Quasimodo, the Elephant Man and Jocko (from Koontz's
Frankenstein series).
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 04, 2017, 04:23:40 PM
Hell, I already look like a cross between Quasimodo, the Elephant Man and Jocko (from Koontz's Frankenstein series).
Ah, but that means you get plenty of good dates ... beautiful girls feel sorry for Quasimodo and Beast ;-)
Quote from: Mr.Obvious on January 04, 2017, 04:40:03 AM
I once started writing a story in which humanity was visited by a perfect race of aliens. They had enough resources and technology to bring us into the space-faring stage of our kind. They had so much to teach us and were willing to, because they saw potential in us. But, on the other hand, they deemed us too dangerous and barbaric; should we have their technology and our tendency to violence, war and rivalry. So they tried to teach us purity and rewarded us with technology the better we behaved ourselves as a species. Lies and jealousy and greed and ... were all foreign concepts to them.
The story was to focus mainly on the suspicions surrounding this mysterious species and their intents. Were they really trying to help us (or was this like 'to serve man')? Were they just trying to control a potential threat they saw in us? Were they really as powerful as they seemed? Were we, in 'behaving' ourselves not becoming more like them and less human?
The protagonist of the story would go investigate and find that the longer he searched, the more sinister their intents seemed. Until the conclusion of the story; which would show they did try to help us, in their eyes, and share their fortune with us. But that in trying to make us pure, they allowed us to corrupt them. And by that, they'd become as dominating and poisonous as we could be.
My computer crashed. And while what I'd written was in no way superb, I wish I had a copy of that.
Long story short: I don't think I'd wish us upon just any other civilization though.
Moral of the Story...
You probably can't understand (or really help) any other separately evolved intelligent creature.
Quote from: Cavebear on January 05, 2017, 12:42:39 AM
Moral of the Story...
You probably can't understand (or really help) any other separately evolved intelligent creature.
No, its: always make back-ups. If I...
Oh. Oh wait...
Quote from: Unbeliever on January 04, 2017, 04:23:40 PM
Hell, I already look like a cross between Quasimodo, the Elephant Man and Jocko (from Koontz's Frankenstein series).
Tor Johnson here.